olien

Thrump it :P

Adam, don't you still use distribution points? You keep telling them to me when you overbid by a mile. You have 2 length points for the spades, and like 5 points for the void. Therefore, it is 15 support points :P So, if you're the little old lady at the bridge club, should bid 1♠ - 4NT and hesitate over partner's re-bid because you don't know if the void is any good, and sign off and partner will know to go on. Easy hand to bid

Oh yes, but when it was doubled, and my partner passed by my partner, why would I now change my mind? xD

so, I was Adam's partner and I had: KTxxx ---- AKxx AT8x I doubled 2♠, over his pull to 3♥ I bid 3NT, and Adam went to 4♥ which I passed. 10 tricks were there for the taking despite ♥ being 7-6-0-0 around the table.

Why not just play fantunes? and I think the reality that the auction will stay alive after (p)-p-(p)-1♦// (p)-p is close to nil. The opps know that I have a huge hand, and are not going to be willing to keep the bidding alive. Although, I will still risk it and open 1♦ because I think the hand is worse to describe after a 2♣ opening. Agree with Han that it would be nice to have a 2♦ opening that includes strong hands with primary ♦s. (I like to play it as 22-23 balanced or any 3-suiter or primary ♦s, but I'm sure I'm in the minority view on that one.)

I am quite familiar with their system, and as far as I know they don't systemically respond on a 3-card suit. Maybe as a (semi)-psyche because they only raise with 4-card support, but normally with 31xx types, they respond 1NT.

I start with double. Just showing extra values. I'll see what partner does, if partner bids 3C or 3D, then slam is still a possibility, but over most other bids I would get out in game.

Not sure how that would work, but the defense against a strong ♣ that I've been playing with my regular partner lately has been working well: NV: X = good hand (about 15+ points) 1♦ = 5+ ♥ 1♥ = 5+ ♠ 1♠ = Majors or Minors 1NT = 4M 5+m 2♣ = either minor 2♦ = 5+M 4+m 2♥ = ♥ or ♠ 2♠ = 4♠ 6+m (not sure if this meaning is best) 2NT = more minors 3x = natural weak 1st thing of note is we only use this defense if NV, and I understand that the 1♣ opening you're trying to defend isn't always strong so maybe this isn't best. You might consider our vulnerable defense to a strong ♣ which is: X = good hand 1♦ = 5+♥ 1♥ = 5+♠ 1♠ = majors or minors 1NT = 4M 5+m 2x = natural 2NT = minors 3x = weak You could play this and define 2m as in the original post. However, I normally just treat a hybrid 1♣ as semi-natural and play natural defense with X = T/O, 2♣=natural, and 2♦=majors. This may not be best, but when its our hand it makes the auction easier.

Hey Rob So a hand with 5♥ INV bids 1N-2♦// 2♥-2♠. So, it shows 4♥, but that's because an INV hand with 4♠ bids differently and so does the INV hand with 5♥. Yes, the 2♣ response promises a major unless relaying, so it does make some sense to play 1N-2♣// 2♦-2♠ as 4♠ INV+. I was just making it F1 (either INV with 4♠ or GF unbal with 4♠. Was trying to get something similar to Heeman so that opener knows both suits and can better decide how their honours fit opposite responder's hand and make appropriate actions. So 2♠ sort of acts like a transfer to 2N/3♣, then over 2N: 3m=4♠ 5+m GF and possibly even (41)44 types. So after 1N-2♣// 2♦-2♠: 2NT = minimum no 4♠ .....3m=4♠ 5+m GF .....3♥=1444 .....3♠=4144 .....3NT=IDK (because 4♠ min GF would bid 1N-2N) 3♣ = maximum no 4♠ .....3♦ = 4♠ 5+♣ GF .....3♥ = 4♠ 5+♦ GF .....3♠ = 1444 .....3NT = 4144 3♦ = any strength with 4♠ .....3♥ = strong ♠ raise .....3♠ = INV .....3NT = 1444 .....4m = good suit with 4♠, fit dependent INV .....4♥ = transfer .....4♠ = sign-off Again, this is all just brain-storming, but I'm just trying to graft the relays onto a good, playable NT structure. This probably isn't totally worth-while, and could probably just as well play 1N-2♣// 2♦-2♠=INV with 4/5♠, but not sure if this is much better. Thoughts are welcome.

They can show their exact hand type if opener chooses to relay by bidding responder's minor

They use smolen, and they play transfers after transfers: 1N-2♣// f-2♠ = INV with 5♠ (may have INV with 5♠-4♥) 1N-2♦// 2♥-2♠ = INV with 5♥ (could be INV with 5/5 majors or 4♠-5♥) ......with 5♥-4♠, bid 3♥ over 2NT, with 5♥-5♠ INV, bid 3♠ over 2NT not sure after 1N-3♦, my partner and I just play 3♥ relays, then 3♠=♠ short, 3N=♥ short NF, 4♣=♥ short, SI If 3♠ is available below 3N after responder shows shortness, it tends to be a punt for fit, and 4m is natural If its not available, then it gets nasty, but basically 4♣ is the grope

on 1453 or 1444, they can show shortness after bidding 1N-2♣ and opener's reply. With (42)(52), they usually respond puppet stayman unless quantitative+. They show 1426 the same as 1444 or 1435 by showing (41)xx (disclosing the singleton). 3361 can be bid via 1N-2♠, or can prefer to bid puppet stayman (but can't show shortness later). 2263 bids 1N-3N unless slam interest, and then goes via 1N-2♠.

I know that about not using this version of puppet stayman with 4-4 majors, and I know the full RM structure xD. Was thinking of a slight change to 1N-2N and play: 3♣ = no 5M 3♦ = 5♠ 3♥ = 5♥ Over 3♦: 3♥ = strong ♠ raise 3♠ = natural, prefer to declare 4m = natural 4♥ = transfer 4♠ = to play

So, I guess I should type out the entire structure that I'm considering. One doesn't HAVE to relay just to find 4 spades as there is also a puppet stayman response (so you also don't have to relay to see if partner has 5H's after the 2H re-bid over 2C). The structure is basically like this: 2♣ = stayman, could be start of ® 2♦ = 5+♥ 2♥ = 5+♠ 2♠ = size or various m GF's 2NT = puppet stayman 3♣ = weak ♦ or GF with long ♣ 3♦ = GF ♦, short M 3M = short oM, 5/5+ minors 3NT = to play After 1N-2R// 2R+1, play transfer re-bids After 1N-2♠// F: Responder can show 6+♦ short ♣ Responder can show short ♦ Responder can show a balanced slam hand with ♦ After 1N-2NT: 3♣ = no 5M ......3♦ = short major (usually (31)54 type) ......3M = 4oM 3M = 5M After a stayman response, and O's reply, responder can also choose to show shortness in opener's M or in ♣, or make a splinter raise. I can't really type out the entire structure since its not really mine to share, but responder can choose to show or ask while basically only giving up garbage stayman. Wonder if its worthwhile [edit] if responder just wants to be in game and is interested in a 4-4 spade fit, go via 2NT puppet stayman, and over the expected 3C re-bid, responder bids 3H.

It seems like many of these stayman structures use 2N/3♣ to show 4/4 major hands directly over the stayman response. This would seem like it wouldn't work all that well. Why is it played like this and does it work well? (especially opposite an 11+-14 NT)

I have a set of notes from Auken - Von Arnim, and their continuations after 1♠-2♦ are not quite what Gerben posted. They are: 1♠-2♦: 2♥ = min, does not promise any support .......2♠ = INV (now 4♣/♦ = COG in ♥/♠) .......2NT = INV .......3m = Natural forcing .......3♥ = 6+♥ forcing (I guess they pass if INV) 2♠ = 5+♠ no ♥ support, NF (again, in context of 4cM canapé) .......2NT = forcing 2NT = Natural, not MIN, may have 3/4♥ BAL 3m = Natural, no good ♥ support, GF, may be canapé 3♥ = 1 suiter in ♠ 3♠ = any splinter, min or max, 3♥ .......3NT = ask short but only if MAX ................4m=shortness ................4♥ = min ......4♣ = ask short regardless of strength 3NT = 4♥ MIN, any splinter 4m = splinter, 4+♥, max 4♥ = 5♠ 4♥ min These are all thats written in their notes about this section, including the continuations. Hope it helps

Ok, since everybody gives their auction, I want to sound cool xD Starting with East: ----- 1♣ (---; 15+ any) 1♦ -- 1♥ (any GF; relay) 1♠ -- 1NT (2-suited w/o ♠ or 1 minor; relay) 3♦ -- 3♥ (5+♦ 4♣ equal short; relay) 3♠ -- 3NT (2254 concentrated 8+ RPs, relay) 4♦ -- 4♥ (9 RPs, relay) 4♠ -- 4NT (0 or 2 top ♦; relay) 5♣ -- 7♦ (0 or top 2♣; to play) With West as Dealer: 1♦ -- 2♣ (10-14 HCP 4+♦ unbalanced; relay) 2♠ -- 2NT (5+♦ 4♣; relay) 3♦ -- 3♥ (equal short; relay) 3NT -- 4♥ (2254 extras; RKC ♦) 5♦ -- 5♥ (2 w/ Q; spec K ask) 6♣ -- 7♦ (K of clubs; OK)

I haven't been able to find anything outlining this online. Could you maybe give a summary? or message me with one? Thanks

I'm trying to find what people think is the best NT structure to be played opposite an 11+-14 NT. Also, where might a find a possible summary of this structure? Also, I've read about heeman recently, and want to get people's opinion of it. Memory is no real issue. I have read up on Keri, and think Heeman is more playable, but maybe I am wrong. So if your opinion is different, please let me know. Thanks

Well, I was planning on using stayman and transfers (not just have to relay with every GF hand). Sorry I didn't make this clear in my original post. My plan was to use this structure for slam going, normally balanced, hands, and to bid normally for unbalanced hands.

Ok, what structure do you think is best for showing responder's shape?

Actually, you are able to invite and locate a 4-4 spade fit. 1N-2♣// 2♦-2♠ = INV+ 4♠ Then Opener can: 2N=min w/o 4♠, 3♣=max w/o 4♠, 3♦=min w/ 4♠, 3♠/NT=max w/ 4♠ and 3NT says 4333

So, I'm trying to develop a relay type stayman where the non-2♣ responses are like a standard NT structure, and here's what I've developed so far. 1NT-2♣ 2♦ = no 4♥ or 5♠ 2♥ = 4/5♥, may have 4♠ 2♠ = 5♠ 1NT-2♣// 2♦: 2♥ = GF relay .............2♠ = a 5m (3♣=5♣, 3♦=22(54), 3♥+=5♦) .............2NT = no 4M or 5m (3♦=33(43), 3♥=2344, 3♠/NT=3244 min/max) .............3♣ = 4♠ and 4/5♣ .............3♦ = 4♠333 .............3♥ = 4243 .............3♠ = 4342 .............3NT = 4252 2♠ = INV+ 4♠ (2NT=min no fit, 3♣=max no fit, 3♦=min fit, 3♠=max fit, not 4333, 3NT=max fit, 4333) 2NT = INV w/ 4♥ 3m = 5+m 4♥ GF 3♥ = 5♥ 4♠ GF (now 3♠ = ♠ fit) 3♠ = 5♠ 4♥ GF 1NT-2♣// 2♥: 2♠ = GF relay ..............2NT = 5(332) or 4♥ 4♠ (3♦=44(32), 3♥+=5♥) ..............3♣ = 4♥ 4/5♣ ..............3♦ = 4♥333 ..............3♥ = 2443 ..............3♠ = 3442 ..............3NT = 2452 2NT = INV w/ 4♠ 3m = GF 4♠ 5+m 3♥ = INV 1NT-2♣// 2♠: 2NT = INV w/ 4♥ 3♣ = 4♥ 5+m GF 3♦ = GF relay Is it as bad as my partner makes it out to be that we don't have garbage stayman playing an 11-14 NT (except when R is willing to pass whatever O re-bids)? Or is this structure good? I have seen other structures but they require that you not open 1NT with certain (usually) hands, and that you sometimes transfer to a 4-card ♥ suit (so that 1N-2♣// 2♠-2NT is the relay).

Agree with Adam It is just 2/1. All you need to do to 2/1 to get to a "identical" system is to play a system similar to one I played against not that long ago: 1m 3+m, no 4M unless reversing values or 18-19 BAL 1M 4+M, may have longer minor if less than reversing values 1N 15-17 The rest of the system can be whatever you want. But you can play 1M-3M as preemptive, and weak 2's

What did you do with hands with both majors? How about 3-suiters?