peachy

I've looked at the hand for a long time and still don't know what to do. I'm afraid at the table I might have a tempo problem to complicate matters for partner... I think Dbl might mean to partner that I don't have 4-card hearts and/or I have extras. Only half of this is true and the other half [extras] only so-so. And I don't have an agreement {Is there a standard or expert standard? If yes, I expect it to show extras and suggest penalty} I'm passing. In my partnerships a negative double could be as little as xx-Axxxx-xxx-QJx.

Responder's jump to 4S means he does not have a hand that can cuebid (either too minimum or no aces outside of diamond). Or it means he has diamond wastage and/or no interest for slam in general. The actual responder hand fit none of these descriptions: it has lots of aces to cue, has extras, and no diamond wastage. Cuebid below game is not a slam force, just probing with a suitable hand with a little extra Kxxx-Axx-Axxx-Ax or with no wastage in partner's shown singleton Kxxx-Ax-xxxx-AQx.

I'm thinking in spades we have likely zero tricks, maybe one if we are lucky. Partner drove them to slam and then did not sac so he has reason to believe slam is not making. (A vul vs notvul sac is rare but it does exist sometimes.) Also, he went to 5S vul vs not-vul so he has enough on the side in these colors not to be giving out a number against their potential +450. Opponents might have a running side suit for discards so we have to figure what that potential side suit is; not hard, I am looking at DK so it must be clubs. Leading a diamond.

Who are you to say what everyone knows?? I have seen people overcall 2NT over a weak two bid with minors. If you think it's a bad question that don't answer it, but only a troll would poison the thread for someone who wants to learn. Helene and Roger are right. My apologies to OP and others who may have taken offense from what I said. To me, the tone and phrasing of the OP did not come across as "wanting to learn". It came across to me as "wanting to expose partner's silly bid". It now appears I was wrong to read it that way. Standard in SAYC and in all learning material says 2NT overcall over their weak two is a strong NT hand with stopper(s) in their suit.

I think there should be at least three choices, not just *1NT or 2C*. I would have passed 1S. Playing support doubles, Dbl obv is "3-card support"; Pass is "nothing to add what I already didn't promise with 1D opening" or possibly a trap pass waiting for partner to reopen with a double; and a bid of anything should be "a reason to bid". I do not see a reason to bid over 1S.

Old players? Do you mean old people who are just now taking up bridge? Or do you mean players who have played for decades and never learned much? If the former, then they need to learn the same stuff that young players need to learn. The pace may be not as rapid, simply because it is scientifically proven and well-known fact that young people learn new stuff faster than old ones, but I don't understand at all the point of bringing age into the mix of what topics a bridge lesson should contain? If the latter, give up trying to teach these players. It is going to result in confusion, no matter what the bridge topic is. Let them enjoy the game in the form they want to enjoy it and teach them only when they BEG (or offer large sums of money...semi-kidding) to take lessons and WANT to improve.

WEST should never have a chance to bid 2H on the second round, as others have already said. If he could have bid 2H, then the NS bidding was in error already.

If opener has 18-19 balanced, he would have jumped to 2NT, not 3NT. Since 2NT shows 18-19 balanced, 3NT obviously shows a different hand.

2NT was a misbid. You knew it. The rest of the world knows it. Isn't your partner feeling bad enough already without your posting it on the forum?

There soon will be, I think I read some agenda or motion to that effect somewhere "reliable".

When I first looked at the problem, Pass wasn't even on my radar while my main concern was "how to stop us from getting too high"... Oh well, josh's post convinced me that Pass is best, although originally I thought 3S might be best. I was never bidding 3H because that sounds too encouraging.

First, NEVER a diamond. Then - partner did not overcall on the one level so he does not HAVE a hand that overcalls on the one level, meaning he does not have a good five+ card major. Then - looking for the suit where they may only have a single or deficient stopper, clubs offers the greatest likelihood of that. So I am leading a club.

I think the key to the decision is in the "team event against weak opposition". Assuming we are the stronger team, no need to go out on a limb. More often than not, I would bid 1H, but not against a weak team.

Without agreements, I can logically come to the conclusion that he has 4-card spade suit and longer diamonds, maybe even six. I also assume that responder did not make a mistake in the first round of bidding so he has denied 5 or more spades.

Pass. Second seat vul versus not-vul is never crazy unless the bidder is crazy. I expect them to make so the only reason to act is to look for a sac but I am not that desperate.

You are the first and only person of whom I know, who plays or even suggests that Stayman is a GF bid. I am going toake your statement about "a lot of players" with a large grain of salt.

OK. Now answer my questions, assuming you had to come in and sub at the stage of the bidding as diagrammed:)

I went wrong here. Would like to see how others judge this. [hv=d=e&v=n&s=s42h854da1095cj952]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] E S W N (1D) P (1S) 2H (Dbl!) P (3D) Dbl (3S) ? You are South, with expert partner, reasonable opponents. SAYC style. East's Dbl was "support" North's Dbl was "extras, with possible alternate strain(s)" Please construct hand or hands for North, compatible with the bidding. What is your call?

It is penalty-oriented, for me. If 1NT overcaller had a TAKEOUT DBL of hearts, he would have made the takeout double then, instead of bidding 1NT. Responder [who passed the 2D bid] is invited to leave it in unless he has clear reason not to leave in. Reasons include void in hearts, 5-5 clubs and spades, singleton heart with a long suit and weak hand, etc.

I like the following, and it jives with my favorite agreements in same type of other situations: Dbl = penalty Pass = full opener but nothing to add, leave decisions to partner 3S = bad hand, probable subminimum, signoff 3D or 3H = good hand, nature of good hand subject to agreement [HSGT, natural, etc), gf established, slam try. 4C = splinter

2♥ is a one-round force, just as it would by an unpassed hand when playing SAYC or modern Acol. Well, then it seems like 2♥ is the call. But I am still praying that partner does not pass... Passed hand sometimes passes unexpectedly, having taken liberties with the 2C call (which also was not forcing opposite 3rd seat opener). For this problem, I think we really need to know whether the opening was in 3rd seat or 4th seat.

Even when you have agreed "4c over 1st and last NT" as Gerber, by my logic this auction must an exception. Opener would have opened something other than 1H if he now is prepared [and not crazy] to ask for aces opposite partner who responded 1NT (6-9, maybe good 5HCP) so it must be something other than ace ask.

I misclicked on vote, so ignore the takeout vote.

I entered a free indy in which 350 players were registered. Second round of it, I got the same partner I had on the first round. Third round, still the same partner. The TD promised to alert BBO of this glitch over which the TD has no remedy. I am sure he did e-mail someone, but just in case he didn't - hope BBO fixes the glitch. Ps. I begged off at the beginning of third round....

If there were a *Beginner Class Teachers* forum, it would be perfect for this one topic. Jus kidding!