Quantumcat

But I don't understand. Doesn't 2♠ show four cards? Or is it okay to lie, because partner's not going to be involved much in the decision making except for answering your questions. (This is just in general) What if spades get set as the suit when there isn't actually a fit? You might not mind knowing about the king of spades then just bid 6 or 7 diamonds but what if you want to sign off in 5♦ and you can't, because that would be asking for the queen! Like, 4NT - 5♣ (1 or 4) - 5♦ (queen?/sign off)- 6♦ (no).... Is there really absolutely no genuine forcing bid except to fake the spades to make a reverse? Surely this problem must come up a lot, and someone has solved it by now. Is that what NMF is? (what is it)

Yeah I had responded to the post saying 2♥ with four of them. After the double, what's wrong with 2♥, one less trick than 3♣ (you said no one would bid it - why not?). Also if you bid 2♥, wouldn't that be more likely a hand with four hearts not four spades and five clubs, since you couldn't take out double? The person who bid 2♥ with 4-4 majors might get a 4-2 heart fit instead of a 4-3 spade fit.

What would 3♦ show, instead of the 2♠?

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

If you bid 2♥, what if you end up in either a 4-2 heart fit or 3♣ with 9876 opposite J32? With a double you can penalty if pard has good diamonds and also find the 4-3 ♥ fit and also play in 3♣ if pard has okay clubs...

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess. What if you had ♠5 ♥Q7654 ♦864 ♣8653 Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart? Or pass :)

So it's like a safer psyche than 1♠ (if p jumps in hearts at least we have a fit). But slightly less advantages (opps unlikely to have a heart fit, and easy for them to bid the master suit, and they probably have a fit there). But if you're going to choose between psyching 1♠ and 1♥, why would you choose hearts? 3 or 4♥ and 3 or 4♠ are both going down, both will be a bottom, (equal risks) yet 1♠ hurts the opps way more?

It has to be a penalty double doesn't it? I've shown my hand already. It would be risky for him to be looking for a 4-3 major fit with no interest in penalising them, what if I was 2-2 .... actually hang on, then I'd have 9 minor cards and either a genuine pass or a 3♣ bid. So actually it makes sense as a take out double. (I have to have either a 2♥/2♠ bid, a 3♣ bid, or a pass). If it is taken that way, the person has to choose to bid 2♥/2♠??

I have a question, I thought 1♥/1♠ there (instead of 1NT) would show five cards, but is that only when another major has been bid so a negative double only has to show one major? Because I guess if you had four of a major, no diamond stop and not four of the other major you wouldn't have anything to bid, would you. But it's only when it goes 1♣ - (1♦) - ? that a major would be only four right?

This is why I never play on BBO anymore unless I've pre-arranged to play with someone I know! Although I guess the randomness of playing with a random person can be fun if your pard doesn't insult you.

Why do people insist on bidding with these hands? I understand with the five-five hand that was posted previously, even without any judgement, any book on bidding will tell you to add points. But this one? How will pard make any intelligent decisions if your responses can include this? What if partner puts you in game?

I would pass ... if the opponents come in and pard is strong, he'll bid something else, now you are limited and pard won't do the wrong thing. Edit: Actually I thought of something better, 1♠. Pard opened 1♦ and probably has a balanced hand. You have two spades. The opponents are likely to have a spade fit and unless they're clever, now won't find it. It's perfect: He'll respond a) 1NT or :) 2 of something which you are quite happy to pass since you'll a) not get a spade lead and :lol: have a fit, just hope he doesn't raise you to 4♠ :-/.

And I guess 4♦ then 5♦ also shows some tolerance for hearts, so partner could correct to 5♥ if he had like a 6 card solid suit and void in diamonds?

How come nobody's passing?

I will have a go. 1 & 2: What does RHO have? With three, LHO has four which can't happen and with two, LHO has five, even more impossible. If RHO had four or five he would have led back a low one. Is there something I'm missing? 3. RHO has to have at least four spades. What could he possibly have that he would lead the ten from? Okay maybe he leads random cards. In that case, if he has Txxx, don't cover then win your ace over LHO's second honour for the jack to be a stop. If he has KTxx, there's always an honour after your ace so I'm not sure what to do, whatever you do he'll be able to knock the ace out this round?? If he has KQTx you have to cover with the jack ... 4. LHO has to have the queen to encourage, if you win the ace then cover the ten, LHO will have a small one to lead back. If you win the ace then don't cover the ten, the jack is a second stop. 5. Exactly the same as above? When you say that an x is completely an x, does that mean if you play low they will win with a low card? In that case I don't know how to approach any of them, your honours are completely tenaced both ways, right?

Do you mean 5♦ right away, or after 4♥-4♠? If right away, partner could think it is a splinter or something (or does this not make sense)?

Hey, that's a good point. I might have remembered the hands wrongly ... how dramatically does the right bid change if you have 3 hearts and 8 diamonds? I didn't keep the hand record the hand was in so I'm not sure exactly ...

oops! I thought it was 2♥. Silly me. So 4♣ would never be a suit, always a cue agreeing hearts?

Okay, some interesting responses, I chose to do as you said, bid 4♥ then 5♦. My partner corrected to 5♥ and went one down. What happened was, the defence led a spade then switched to the ace and another diamond and because the hearts didn't split nicely (4-0) my partner couldn't run the diamond suit (he had xx) without letting someone ruff, and he couldn't draw trump because then he couldn't get back to the diamonds. He ended up losing 1 spade, 1 diamond and one diamond ruff. Even if they continue spades, he can't ruff and draw trumps because when he knocks out the ace of diamonds they can cash a spade at him. However, 5♦ makes easily, losing a spade and the ace of diamonds. Do you think those who chose 4♦ were just lucky on this hand and that 4♥ is truly correct? or that those who decided to forget hearts and insist on diamonds as trump thought the various play scenarios out carefully?

Why 4♠, partner could be void in it? He has to have at least 4 clubs, why is this not the suit of choice? And why only 5♣? Partner is forcing game when we could still have a 5332 11 count, why not 6♣ at least? Also, why did we not open 2♣? We have 4 losers don't we?

I made a little convention that I really like but others didn't think much of, for dealing with natural interference like that. After 2D overcall: Double is both majors Bidding 3C is invitational takeout of diamonds Double then 3C is GF takeout of diamonds 3D is stayman (good invitational plus only though) Bidding a major is a transfer to the other major (can't just bid your major cause you need to get another go in case you're stronger than a transfer-then-pass hand) After 2C overcall: Double is both majors Bidding 2D is invitational takeout of clubs Double then 3D is GF takeout of clubs 2D is stayman (doesn't have to be strong, you can pass a 2 level bid now) Bidding a major is a transfer to the other major After a major overcall: double is the other major (four) Bidding the other major is five or more and invitational (you'd be quiet with a transfer-then-pass type hand) Doubling then raising or bidding the other major is GF as though you'd transferred to that major 3C is invitational takeout of that major Double then 3C is GF takeout of that major For any of them, jumping in a major is to play there, jumping in a minor is forcing ... Do you think this could work? Maybe with some tweaks and changes? The answer to your question anyway is that there are many different conventions and agreements you can use to deal with interference, I don't think any one treatment is standard per se.

The following are a beginner's thoughts, they are probably wrong: If you add your points, 23 + 5 + 3 for singleton gives just on 31, if you feel lucky and want to try for slam, maybe you could bid: 2♣ - 2♦ 2NT - 3♥ 4♥ = some sort of super accept with 4 spades and 4 hearts? It gets a bit tricky. There are hands where he has the required 23 points but you are missing 2 aces, he might have ♠KQxx, ♥KQJx, ♦KQx, ♣AK for example. He has to have at least 1 ace and the king of spades for his points so you'll always make 5♠/5NT. Bid blackwood (regular will do, he has to have the king of spades) to find out he has 3 aces. You have 12 tricks unless they lead a diamond and spades not 2-1, if the queen was in diamonds and they led it you would have 12 tricks too, but if the queen was in diamonds and they didn't lead it you could have problems. But anyway, you have a good chance of having 12 tricks, I would bid 6♠ rather than 6NT just in case you need an extra trick somewhere, probably a lot of the field will stop in 4♠ so that's a good enough score.

If bidding 3♥ after changing suit is game forcing, how do you show an invitational hand with three cards? With the mentioned auction 1H - 2D, 3C, opener is already gameforcing, so 3H is a hand wanting to go further than game and 4H would be a minimum hand, wouldn't it?

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s5ht942dkqjt975c6]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Your partner opens 1♥ to which the opponent pre-empts 3♠. What is better, 4♥, 4♦, or pass? I don't think 5♦ is an option because partner might take it as a splinter or something. I bid 4♥, because I was afraid if I bid 4♦ it would go 4♠ pass back to me, now I can't say 4♥ to tell him about my support. Or does it not matter at all because of the beautiful diamond suit?

You don't know how many spades you will get, if any, because partner could have plenty of spades and not want to pre-empt in a ratty suit. Partner doesn't have to have any tricks if he likes to support with support without a hand. Even if spades are 3-3 or 4-3 or something it's only 1 down, the difference between 1 down doubled and 1 down undoubled is nothing in imps but you lose loads when you are wrong (easy to be if you are doubling them based on 1 down). Another problem is if declarer is faced with dropping the king (he could have a ten card fit and lack of entries for example) or finessing, he will now certainly choose to finesse you if it's possible. So in conclusion I disgree with the double. Anyway, this is one of the many topics my partner has lectured me about all week :-)