bluecalm

I double first time around, pass 4H. Then I bid 5C if I trust partner to read as max hand in the context with some chances for slam and 5H if I don't. I think that if it goes: pass pass 1D 1S dbl 3S dbl pass 4H pass pass 4S pass* * = this pass should be forcing as our double showed significant extras. Even if it's not forcing I think I make 5H very often with partner having 5+ hearts.

Yeah, seems like easy 4H. I didn't know it's wank playing :) I thought people have their bbo usernames here on the forum

Exactly 14 opposite exactly 11 is rare and game isn't always good anyway. This style has many advantages. One is that clubs are not lost, 2nd is that you could play 2C as 2way: either natural 5S-4+C 11-15 or 16+any hand which plugs standard holes of standards (no sensible way to bid strong hands, no way to stop in partscore if responder has 6-7hcp, jumps with 4 cards made on any 18 5-4 even opposite 5hcp, jumpst with 6carder and 15-16hcp opposite what could be 5hcp with singleton, unbiddable 6-(3-3-1) 16+ hands, etc. etc.). I would rather work on solving problems within that framework, which has proven track record in top level bridge, than changing the framework to something which generates tons of other problems.

Ok, I understand your style. It seems my question wasn't clear enough because I didn't understand what "semi-forcing" 1NT means to people. I will clarify: what do you do in 2/1 context, where partner passes 12-14's 5-3-3-2's after our 1NT and 2C/2D bids are only made with 4+cards.

Interesting. I thought the whole point of playing 1NT semiforcing is to have 2D being natural 4+ cards and 2C either natural or some kind of operational bid (like Gazilli) which contains natural clubs. That would imply passin with 5-3-3-2's up to 14hcp, isn't that what "semi-forcing" 1NT implies ? I mean, what do you do with AKxxx AQx xxx xx ? If that hand bids anything I would call it forcing 1NT :)

Yeah, this is nice. I saw something similar in Bocchi-Duboin system and I quite like it. I am more interested in solution in standard 2/1 context though. I should've mentioned it in OP.

So let's say we play semi-forcing 1NT in wide range opening context and our system will be used mainly at matchpoints. Opening is 1S. What do we do with fit hands in 4-9hcp range ? Let's say limit raise is not a problem because we can put it in one of the 2N/3C/3D/3H bid. I see three solutions: a)just raise directly to 2S with wide range and hope it confuses opponents more than us (ie. they misjudge more often than we overbid to 3S) b)bid 1NT with say 4-6 and hope it won't get passed out and if it isn't treat as weak hand with two spades risking vulnerable 1NT on 16-18hcp which might go down heavily even undoubled. c)just pass with 4-5pc or something and raise to 2S with 6-9. I am worried about b) at MP's. I am worried even more about a); c) seems strange at first glance but maybe that's the way to go ? What do you think is the best solution to the problem ?

This is a question we could try to answer by asking top players. I don't know any personally so I won't contribute. I remember one of the all-time best bridge players who happen to live in my city calling LOTT total bullshit though ;)

Nvm

Nice hand. I see the point of both proposed lines but I can't see the way to estimate which is better.

I would love to take credit but this is what I learnt from Tomi2 about this situation :)

I don't think it's that hard. We have 3 tricks. If partner has diamond trick nothing will save declarer. If he hasn't we better cash ours before they go away on diamonds. Now we need to decide which ace to lead. Is it possible that partner's KQs tricks disappear on clubs if we lead A[clubs} ? It could be so, so A♥ looks better. Btw, some good card sense from partner doubling it. I am impressed.

To be honest I didn't appreciate 2♥ as lavinthal during the hand. I thought they are just discarding cards they don't need :) Only later I realized it showed club values (it was Polish tourney and in Poland everybody play lavinthal discards vs NT). So now it seems I should edit the topic of this thread to: "simple technical question" instead of hand reading ;)

You could use imp hands and how often the contract made opposite various pc counts as metric. I am not sure how big variance is for such thing. If I am bored later today I can do that on vugraph hands. Before I do though, let's think what would constitute good argument as I am done with doing exactly what my opponent in this discussion asked for and then having him back off instead of admitting defeat :) For example if I pull all 5-3-3-2's 14count which opened 1NT and got raised to 3NT directly by hand with 9-12hcp and compare it to all 4-3-3-3's 15count which opened 1NT and got raised to 3NT by the same range of hands, does it prove anything if 4-3-3-3's 15 count make the game more often ? Or maybe I need to add some features to 14hcp 5-3-3-2's ? Any other ideas ? I think 0.4 is reasonable. I don't think its that much for now but I wouldn't exclude the possibility.

It's useful to have invite with long hearts somewhere when playing semiforcing 1NT. Without it the disasters are spectacular (although quite rare). You have four bids after 1S: 2N/3C/3D/3H. I would use one of those for 6+hearts, 9-11. Say 3C as it allows for useful operational 3D call. Out of 4 bids after 1S: 2N/3C/3D/3H I would use one for 9-11, 6+hearts, preferably 3C.

Yes. Yeah, I screw that up, I thought LHO started with 3-3-4-Qxx and didn't lead a diamond because of Jxxx. Opponent's hands: 953 J74 752 AJ63 96 KJ87 QT972 J6 Good to have this forum :)

I can just add, for the record that almost never downgrading 18's and often upgrading 14's is exactly what the best players in this game do and that is true even for very disciplined openers. For example Lauria-Versace always played 15-17 NT which is like gold standard for classical as they rarely pass 8 count opposite it, they never open 1NT with 5M and very rarely with 6m or 2-2-(5-4). In whole vugraph history they opened 1NT 529 times. 2 times with 18hcp and 88 times with 14. You can do that for any other world class pair and you will see the same thing: a lot of upgrades, often off shape weaker openings but those 4-3-3-3 outside the upper range never land in 1NT.

I believe this is correct. Counter intuitive it might be but if there is any difference it's so small that it could be ignored. I wrote that two tens are worth almost 1hcp. I mean, there is difference but somehow difference is small. You have to draw the line somewhere and while A532 K52 AQ5 J52 is cleary not 1NT opening, AT32 KT2 AQ5 J52 might still not be 1NT opening while AT32 KT2 AQ5 JT2 is slam dunk 1NT opening if you play classical (which means partner will pass awful 8's and invite with decent 8's). No it doesn't mean it. By 15-17 I mean what is generally expected and how people react to it which is driving to game with every 10 and inviting with many (most ?) 8's while passing all <8hcp. The whole point is to open hand which are worth 15-17hcp. To me hand with 15hcp is worth 15hcp unless there are some glaring weaknesses in it while many good 14's (ie having a lot of spots) are worth 15hcp. Your interpretation is that 15hcp is not really 15hcp unless it has its share fair of positive additions like shape or spots. What I want is to count T's and 9's for something and adjust value of A's a bit. I mean, if A32 AQ2 AJ2 532 is not 15-17hcp 1NT opening in your book maybe we don't agree what "hcp" stands for...

OK, I will start. How often 3NT makes opposite 6-7 balanced with maximum 4-4 in majors (the hand which passes 1NT opener but drives o game opposite 18-19). 1st hand: 3NT makes 46% 2nd hand: 3NT makes 35% Which is not really surprising if you did a lot of those simulations before. In short: This is correct. Shape is overrated (when it comes to 1NT openings), you should never downgrade just because you have 4-3-3-3 and probably you shouldn't upgrade because of 5-3-3-2. What counts are pc, spots and aces. (A's are underrated and two tens and two nines are worth almost 1pc while 3 tens are probably a bit more than 1pc). Some people did a lot of research with dd simulations and real hand results to arrive at those conclusions, I won't repeat this discussion here. I can just say, that I am paying attention to this stuff and imo this upgrading algorithm: a)don't worry about shape b)add 1PC for 2aces and 2tens or 3tens or 2tens/2nines/one ace c)downgrade only awful hands without any spots Is imo better than w/e people at w/e level come up with.

[hv=pc=n&s=skt6hkq94dq54cak5&n=saq82ht8dat32c843&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=p1np2cp2hp3n]266|200[/hv] Matchpoints, average opps who play 2/4 leads, UDCA (which means 2nd from both Hxx and xxx) and lavinthal discards. Play: 5♠, 8♠, J♠, K♠ T♠, 3♠, 2♠, 4♠ 6♠, 9♠, Q♠, 7♠ A♠, 7♦, 5♣, 2♥ T♥, 3♥, 4♥, 5♥ 8♥, A♥, 9♥, 7♥ J♣, A♣, 2♣, 3♣ K♥, 7♣, 2♦, 6♥ Q♥, 6♦, 4♣, J♥ And now the moment of truth has come. We have ♣K ♦Q54 in hand and ♣8 ♦AT3 in dummy and we need to guess diamonds. I missed it and I wonder what kind of thought process should give me clues here.

100% S. N probably overbid anyway and S still didn't bid game. Even if it went: 1H pass 2C 2D 3H pass ? Responder should bid game with his perfect 10hcp and bidding in OP is stronger.

Yeah, they don't go well with wide range openings. You will always have problems, just dump it like the best pairs playing wide range opening did (in fact they never adopted it). Support double is good for precision or maybe polish club.

How is HUM and BSC defined ?

While I play it with almost everybody as it's standard in my country I think it's bad. At least in my country openings are usually limited to 17hcp so it's not that awful. The reason is that you don't want to jump to 3M just because you have 15hcp and 6carder. You eat away all the space which is needed if anything for finding a fit for responder's suit. I think there are two good solutions for this: a)playing completely artificial scheme with one bid being minimum (say 2D) and then relay for shape to the end b)playing that 2M is either up to 14-15hcp or strong one suited. Then relays for fit in responders suit and strenght. For example like this: 1S - 2C 2S - 2N ® 3C = exactly four clubs (then relay for shortness) 3D = exactly 3 clubs (then relay for 6th spade) 3H = 6 spades, at least 14-15hcp 3S = 6 spades but the weakest hand 3N = 5-3-3-2 exactly 12-14 After: 1S - 2C 2S - 2N 3H - 3S 3N = non serious, say 14-16 cuebid = 17+ Imagine you have AQ8xxx Ax xx AQx. What do you bid after 2C in your style ? Imo anything but 2S is just godawful (unless it's part of some artificial scheme).

Balanced raise to 4H. It was against randoms on bbo though so no alerts and stuff... I am not a fan. I still should have included the option in the poll though.