catatonic

pass probably as good a score as we are going to get

well , I waited for someone to point out the subsidiary advantage of PASS ; it will slow down pt if he has a good hand ; your bid suggests that defeating a part score is the limit of your ambitions [ it can also be a hand that expects opps to go for a big number , but pt will be happy with that , surely ], so not much outside hearts ; if the bidding continues and he wants to go on , fine ...at least he will know what to expect from your side of the table personally when my side has made a penalty pass I like to play all further doubles as the axe

well , can't have unanimity ! PASS I look to have about 4 tricks , even with a poor hand pt should be able to contribute 3 ; if he has a good hand he then knows where my length and strength lies

surely the questioned to ask yourself is ...what are the opps liable to do ? where I come from having a punt at 5 clubs is liable to be a popular answer , so that,s for me

that's the point really , isn't it ? there is rarely a fit , and if there is you generally hear about it if you listen what would JC have done in 2nd hand after a pass by dealer ? passed like a flash , and waited to collect the money you are sadly missed john , your partnership with jonathan cansino was becoming amongst the best in the world until your 2 heart attacks and jonathan's subsequent brain tumour put an end to your careers at the highest level ,both at barely 30 years of age

come on then , what was the full deal ; want to know what happens , and whether or the john collings route would have been best ...the one I would have followed

pass you really think this is going to be passed out unless pt has lots of diamonds? on hands like this he who buys the contract often gets the minus score , and so far all you know suggests a misfit

cracked it ; don't go back ...simply close the page you are on !

hi! well , on my software that just takes me back to the beginning of the hand I just reviewed , so doesn't help ! is this just me?

when reviewing hands and finished with a hand I click on the floppy icon to return to the hands list .......I also get a log in screen when clearly I am already logged in ! right clicking doesn't produce any alternative line ....am I just having a senior moment here? do I have a software problem ?

well , you don't give the auction ,the pips , or the lead methods so it is impossible to be definitive but I am probably with the last poster

actually that was the line I dismissed first ; balance of probabilities is that the 10 diamonds is[ 4 to 3 times] more likely to be with the longer holding [ ignoring other breaks ] I considered finessing the 10 hearts , but considered the extra chance of a misplay or any doubleton honour on my right a better chance any mathematicians about ?

sometimes you just have to wonder why you play this game ! playing here with a partner of whose methods I know nothing except that we have agreed sayc, I get the following hand ♠AKJT ♥Q984 ♦QJ94 ♣4 so open a diamond ; no intervention , pt bids 2 clubs ; now , some people seem to think that a reverse here is strong and GF and some don't , so I decide to temporise with 2 diamonds which at least promises no more than a minimum opener partner decides to raise diamonds .....he bids 6! ; deciding this probably means that he has a diamond suit with me I pass , and he puts down ♠Q87 ♥AT ♦AK ♣AK9863 club lead , draw diamonds 4-3 , heart to A and find RHO with KJx !! so the contract rolls in ; for some reason opps seem to think this is somewhat lucky , can't think why !! couple of boards later I pick up the following at red v green ♥A874 ♦KQT95 ♣QT86 pt deals and opens a weak 2 hearts, pass , and to no ones surprise I bid 4 hearts ; 4 spades bids the next hand promptly , passed around to me now red v green sacrifices are rare situations in my experience , but here it seemed correct to me 5 hearts and 4 spades might both make 5 hearts may be 1 off with 4 spades making they might bid 5 spades making or not it's just as difficult for the opps to judge at the 5 level so I bid 5 hearts followed by pass, pass, x and pt [ same as before as were the opps ] turns out to hold for his red v green weak 2 ♠652 ♥QT9652 ♣7543 and not surprisingly , gets a spade lead ..low ruff on table , advances K diamonds from table , not covered , throws club , loses to A ; OK so far ? his LHO decides it is time to cash some clubs , so advances the K from KJxx , neatly collecting his pt's bare A ! having started with Jx of trumps and Jxx of diamonds , another of his solid spades to make the dummy ruff again looks best to RHO , so he does that ; pt ruffs , lays down A hearts , dropping the bare K from his LHO at this point , not dissatisfied with events ,I adjourn for a natural break ;on return I discover that pt has racked up a score of -800 and in case you are wondering , no, I didn't ask ! sometimes virtue must be it's own reward anyway , as I said , honours even

double ; pt does not even know our diamonds are a genuine suit at this point if he bids clubs , take out to diamonds and he knows you have 4 hearts and a rebiddable diamond suit , and a good opener ; for him/her to judge thereafter ... , can still have a heart suit and some points when passing the double , the one spade bid was forced and promises nothing

how good are the clubs??? if 234567 , I sign off in clubs if there is the possibility of pt being able to overtake a small club when he has something like AQx I bid 3NT ; Txxxxx would be a strong suit lol 2NT/ invite ? I'm with those who believe that it is impossible to find out enough to be that precise

100% with AWM pt MUST have at least one of the major aces to bid 4NT [ if he hasn't you shouldn't be posting here , you should be out looking for another pt ] and you can reasonably expect either the other major ace or the Q clubs tough if you are missing 7 , but if pt DOES have 3 aces and the Q clubs he will bid it anyway , and you will make an overtrick LOL

well , just ask yourself what your pt knows you hold club length you don't hold hearts [ cheap bid of 3 hearts was available ] the opener had weak major 2 suiter you can't support diamonds you know opener has the weak major 2 suiter therefore 4 hearts was ?

gee tks ken ; wasting nearly 2 minutes of my life on this

oneyed jack...just when I had begun to believe that witty comments were forbidden here ...a jeu de mot as well!! don't know if you are wasting your sweetness on the desert air though !

your point re the commentators is well made micah , in fact you are being somewhat kind imho but this happened to be someone from my past who I have played against and respect ...but as you suggest , no names , no pack drill ! maybe roland can get someone from your neck of the woods ....played against Koke at deauville one year ...he'd be a lot of fun as well as an acute observer

well , it's more than 20 years since I earned my corn as a professional bridge player , pay to play and rubber , so I am certainly no longer so expert ...not that I ever considered myself out of the top drawer ; more perspiration than inspiration perhaps nevertheless , what most people do is not , and never has been , an argument which influenced me , although you need to know that for a pick up partner ; as I said earlier it is all about bid frequency ...which way wins the most is my attitude with regard to the 1 club- 1NT point , it seemed to me to be axiomatic so I didn't elucidate , so thanks to codo for doing so better than I could have ; I must admit to being somewhat amused by the parallel to top Polish players bidding 1club -1NT and bypassing 1 diamond , seeing as both bids are artificial and 1club doesn't show clubs any more than 1 Diamond show diamonds in polish club ! with regard to the 2 heart forcing or not bit , I am sure there are arguments on both sides , it has to be taken in the context of your overall system ; but when a player of international calibre expresses surprise in his commentary that anyone should play this as forcing , I am inclined to take his word for it [ admittedly NF is my preference so am biased ] ; it always seemed to me inconsistent to argue for aggressive bidding , then shutting out bidding on a weak single suiter but to return to the original question , posed because I am trying to learn and understand the logic of sayc ; I will refer you to one of the finest card players and tacticians who ever lived , terence reece ; as a young player I kept coming up against him in the major events , and , for some reason he generally got the best of us ! [ can't think why javascript:add_smilie(":P") biggrin.gif ] after one event he took me to one side and said .....you would be a better player if you didn't talk so much with your bidding ..like most youngsters , too busy of course ; and what bid gives the opponents more opportunity to disclose their hands than 1 club? jtfan , can't quite follow your argument but 100% with your conclusion , so that's good enough for me ! amazed that anyone should feel insulted by my comments ....not my nature nor my intention I assure you

to cover some of the points 1♣ 1NT guarantees a club fit and not 4!S so you are now better placed than after 1♠ 1NT , you can bid 2♣ , if opps come in to balance you can bid 2♠ and pt knows exactly what you have ; if opps go on and pt doubles you can pass in sleep , he knows all if the system is that you open black 2 suiters 1♣ your pt will know as much as he/she would if it went 1♠ 4♥ , if the vulnerability allows you can rebid 4♠ if pt has passed ; if you opened 1♠ and he passes you have no option but to pass , you could have a big ♣ fit and never find it , missing a cheap sacrifice or even a game in any case the incidence of an auction like 1♣ 4♥ is very low ; if you ever write a bidding system from scratch you will soon realise that bid frequency is all when you decide which way to construct it ; wonderful sequences that come up twice a year are losers not winners in the long run when opponents make a simple overcall you have , in reality , an easier rebid when you open 1♣ ; this only applies when you hold ♠ 's of course , hence the black 2 suiter stipulation with regard to mixing it up , too confusing for pt ; of course , if the disparity of the suits is great you should be re-evaluating the hand anyway ; to me ♠ AKQxx ♣Txxxx is 5-4 anyway , and bid as such anyhow , looks to me this is another of those situations would where top players do it one way by opening1♣, and the others 1♠ ; maybe I have just been lucky enough to play with real experts it's a bit analogous to the 1♣ 1♠ overcall 2♥ sequence where many players tell me 2♥ is forcing ; now I haven't played that as forcing since the introduction of negative doubles ......at the last world championships I was kibbing and this sequence happened in the open pairs...one of the commentators said that to his surprise there was a pair in the competition who actually played 2♥ as forcing in this sequence ; maybe he had missed someone , but it gives you an idea of the proportions thanks to all for your thoughts

a weak hand and no 5 card suit ?.....best bet to beat this is to find pt with a 5 card suit and despite the auction statistically it is most likely to be clubs

as dealer ,playing sayc [ supposedly :) ] I held ♠ KJxxx ♥x ♦Jx ♣AKxxx and opened 1 ♣ ,as I would at any vulnerability with any other equal 2 suiter I would of course open the higher suit , but with the black suits you can frequently bid both by rebidding the spades even with a minimum hand like this...much easier for partner to judge the contract the players at the table , ops sayc as well , told me that in sayc you must open the major as it is 5 cards ; not being strong enough to make a high reverse you rebid the spades ; to me this is ridiculous question is , are they correct ...and if so , why ?

playing any natural system I like to play the sequence [with no intervention ] 1H 1S 4H as showing specifically game values with a 3 card spade fit ; my thinking is that if I have game in my own hand I will open with 2C [ or equivalent ] so I don't have that ; so when pt shows a few random points my hand must have been greatly improved by the 1S bid ; no problem now to reach 4S when he/she has short hearts and length in spades if I don't have the fit I can , of course , bid 3C/D as I will invariably have 3 of one of those ....pt then has several bids available to him/her without going past 3NT is there ANYONE there that agrees with me ? :)