bid_em_up

I think this is probably more of a case of remembering the bad boards, and forgetting the good. Overall, passouts should even themselves out (good, average, bad result). On this particular hand, I think because it has both majors, 4 reasonable places to play (♦ ♥ ♠ NT), and can tolerate whatever partner responds (within reason), it should be opened. Same hand, different pattern: ♠AQ ♥Jxx ♦xxxx ♣KJxx Here, I would expect passout to yield an excellent result.

To comment further on the last board/good set issue, you state that you believed that you are having a good set, so we will assume it is late in the set, and possibly even the last board (ok, having determined now that it IS the last board from the thread title). If you normally open this hand in fourth seat, then there is no reason to vary from that. If you normally pass this hand in fourth position, then thats what you do. Stick with what got you here, dont change it in an attempt to create action. You usually will create it, but not with the desired results. If your partnership tends to favor aggressive opening styles in 1st/2nd seats (opening 11-12 counts, rule of 20, LTC, etc), then I would pass. Partner has passed already, denying any of these possibilities, making it more likely his hand is the 7-8 count at the table. If, on the other hand, your partnership style is to play sound openings in 1st/2nd position, then opening this hand is (almost) a must to protect your part-score. Like Ben, I think opening the minor will work better with this hand (as opposed to opening 1S), but I will open 1C and pass partners bid, unless this opening is systemically precluded (you say that most of the field is playing precision, but not that you are). This gives you three options to play (1D, 1H, 1S), and it allows you to reasonably compete to 2D, or 2H if it becomes necessary. If it goes 1C-p-1D-p-p-? Now opps may try to balance in a major, which we will like :P. If you are playing precision, then open 1D. As always, jmoo.

I dont see where it says its last board. EDIT: DUH!! The thread title "another last hand", I was looking in the text of the first post for it. :P

Only if they win. ;)

Some appear to believe that in the US that all a waiter/waitress earns is what they receive in tips (not true) or in addition to a measly wage that they are being paid (partially true). While true to some degree, the Minimum Wage Act (see link below) requires employers to pay a minimum wage of $5.15/hour. If a waiter, waitress, barber, whatever, does not make an equivalent of this wage, the employer "technically" is required to make up the difference (also listed below). Now, if you care to debate whether or not the current minimim wage is livable/viable compensation for an hours work, that is a different arguement altogether. http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/pos...f/minwagebw.pdf Tip Credit – Employers of “tipped employees” must pay a cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit against their minimum wage obligation. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Certain other conditions must also be met. (I believe the certain other conditions reference things like you must be a full-time employee, etc., but I could be mistaken). Claus, you first state that in Denmark, there is no tipping. Then, in later posts, you go on to state that there is "tipping" but it is MANDANTORY (service fee added) in your taxi-fare example and then you are taxed accordingly to whatever your days receipts were. So there is tipping in Denmark after all, no? Only I, as a consumer, have no choice whether I pay it or not? So your employer (or the waiter/waitresses) is not paying all of your/their wages either? The consumer is still footing the bill for part of it, regardless of whether you call it a tip or a fee. Only in our case, it is not mandantory that I pay it, if I am dissatisfied with the service. And then, if I understand you correctly, you pay your taxes on whatever you earned for that day. Now, are you allowed to take more than the $11.50 in your example, if someone offered it? If you do, do you list it in your wages as well? Would you be offended if they did offer it? What if they had 8 really heavy bags and asked your assistance in carrying them up 3 flights of stairs? Are you obligated by your mandantory service fee to do so? Or do you leave them at the sidewalk to struggle with their luggage? If you did help carry the luggage up the stairs, would you still be offended if they offered you extra compensation? Would you expect it? (Just curious). While the minimum wage for a waiter/waitress here is currently $2.13/hr, they usually make well above that (this, of course, assumes they are employed in a business that has reliable traffic) and well above the minimum wage. Do you think they report all of this as taxable income? Of course not. In the end, they are usually much better off than being given a set wage plus a forced tip that they MUST report. Mind you, there are positions in the US, (hairdressers, strippers/exotic dancers, some casino dealers, and I suppose, some wait staff as well, to name a few that I know of) where they are not paid at all by the employer. That is because they are not considered to be employees of the company, but instead, they are independent contractors. Many hairstyling salons rent their booths out to stylists (yes, the stylist pays them to work there!), and provide them with a stream of clientele. These stylists (many times) are allowed to charge their own rates for their services (not the salons). Should you tip them as well? If you are satisfied with their service, sure. I can certainly envision certain high-end eating establishments (I never could spell restaraunts) charging their wait-staff to work there as independent contractors. The wait staff will gladly do so in these cases, knowing that what they make in tips will more than offset what they are being charged and the end result is still more than they would make elsewhere. Adult entertainment businesses do this on a regular basis (dont ask how I know) ;) Oh, and one last thing...having to pay the policeman $20 to get correct directions is called bribery, not tipping. I can't believe noone has mentioned this before now.

How do you punish a masochist? hidden:>

I dont think so, try constructing a few possible hands where 4C does not have play when partner actually has a reverse (its almost impossible, i think). x AQxx Axx AQJxx? Nope, 4C makes, 5 is on hrt finesse. KJx AQxx x AQJxx? 5C again on heart finesse or misdefense, 4S may have play. xx AKxx Kx AQJxx? 4C only goes minus if diamond A offside. Kx AQxx Qx AQJxx? 4C only depends on heart finesse, not unreasonable. Ax KQxx AQ QJxxx? partner may well have rebid 2N on this hand and 4C still has least 50% play. or give partner a few other reverses: AKx AJxx x AJxxx 5C cold. Kx AKxx Ax AJxxx 5C cold. x AKxx AQx AJxxx 5C cold, 6 on diamond finesse (assuming clubs break or pd finds Q), and I am not certain if partner will break the 3C relay holding this hand (I wouldnt). and so on.... overall the few -50/100's you will incur when partner passes 4C will be more than offset when you gain 400/600, imo. Now if you are including hands where partner raises 4C to 5C and goes down one, that is slightly different story, but overall they will be offset. (it has to be wrong at almost 2-1 ratio for it to lose in the long run, i think). This was an IMP question, wasnt it? Sorry Mike, but I believe you should make one more attempt to reach the vul game, for a variety of reasons. You bid it, it makes. Other table doesnt bid it, win 10. Dont bid it, other table does, it makes, lose 10. Both tables bid it, it makes/goes down, push. You dont bid it, other table does, you make 4 while other table goes down only 1. You win 6. Which category would you rather be in? The win 10 or push, or the win 6, lose 10? Team strategy almost requires the former, knowing that the pair at the other table should be striving to bid the vulnerable game as well. Plus, you dont have to explain to teammates why you are -10 on this board. They are more likely to forgive you for bidding the vulnerable game, and going -1 than they are to be happy with -10 because you didnt want to invite. ;) (At matchpoints, I might agree with you and pass, simply because thats what the field will most likely do).

The problem with this logic is that the majority of books are written for, well, beginners/intermediates. You said it yourself "In fact one of the first books I ever read gave exactly same kind of suits as given in this thread and advised to bid 1 major" (what level of player were you when you read it?). When teaching someone to play the game initially, it is simply not possible to explain to them when to open 1D and when to open 1S. They have enough to remember already and do not have the experience to be able to judge when to open 1D and when to open 1S. You give them a set of rules to follow, in the hopes that they can remember those (most can't). Since most books that are written are geared to this level of player, it is unlikely that you will ever see a book written that advocates opening 1D instead of 1S. I am not playing a different system when I choose to open this hand one diamond. I am using my judgement and experience at the table to do so and that is why I do not believe that all top 50 experts will open 1S. They have been there, done that, so to speak and while their systemic bid is 1S, they may opt to deviate from this. This hand certainly qualifies as one on which they may choose to do so.

I dont think you would be, as you will gain whenever partner bids 4S, 4N for minors, 5C or 5D (and makes) or passes for plus, as opposed to the hands where 4S is the only makeable contract and the 4S bid works. As always, jmoo.

Since when have 3 bridge players agreed on anything, much less 50. Never say Never.... :P While not in the top 50 myself, I do not believe all 50 would open 1S, especially given the disparity of the two suits and the total values of the hand. It is certainly good enough to open 1D and then bid spades twice or 2S/3S over whatever interference you may get. (My vote went to 1D followed by 1S over 1H). If there is a diamond slam to be found, you make it difficult for partner to believe that your hand is this good for diamonds after you open 1S. The opposite does not hold true, (if there is a spade slam to be found, you probably will still find it after bidding 1S over 1H) and certainly will find any spade game available on this sequence. The other factor is....should opps for whatever reason buy the contract with pard on lead, there is no way in &*(# that you want him leading a spade away from Qxx, Kxx or what usually happens to me, he leads the spade K from Kx. :lol: As always, jmoo.

How is partner taking another call once you relay to 3C (via 2N) and then pass? While its clear if partner breaks the relay, you are bidding 5C at least, the question appears to be, what do you intend to do if partner simply bids 3C as instructed? I think the 1S bid is ok, but would not find too much fault with an inital pass or an initial 3C bid either. After bidding 1S and the reverse, I think that 2N (leb) then raising 3C to 4C should describe my hand fairly accurately (spade values, good club fit, no diamond stop). I could have simply bid 3C direct or new suit with slam ambitions, and 5C with a hand that is willing to play game in clubs. I believe that passing the 3C leb relay is a very unilateral decision. I didnt vote, because I was not given the option of raising 3C to 4C after leb relay. As always, jmoo.

Oh. In that case, I would concern myself more with teaching East to double with this hand than worrying about teaching West when to pull 4S to 5D. The West hand should NEVER (imo) override East's decision to bid 4S since his hand is an unknown. East could quite easily be AKQxxxx xx x AQx (a more appropriate 4S call) and pulling to 5D on the West hand can only serve to prevent partner from making similar calls again. East did not ask for partners participation in determining the contract, and West should respect that. End of story. I fail to see why so many appear to believe they need to bid 4S (thereby making a unilateral bidding decision) instead of doubling with their 20 pt. hand. The only possible explanation is the often (ill)-quoted school of thought that says "always bid 4S over 4H". If you choose this methodology, then sometimes you simply must accept the accompanying ridiculous results and move on to the next board. As always, jmoo.

(pulls out soapbox, climbs on). Oh please. While the subject itself is repulsive, it is a reference to a South Park episode (Chef is a character on the show). The comment goes to reflect exactly what he meant by "Oh well, some people have no sense of humor". (What may offend you, can be funny to someone else when presented in a certain context). And yes, I do think that complaining about this is "over the top", not to mention petty. Just exactly how is the comment inflammatory? How is it racist? How is it "insulting"? It is a statement of (perceived) fact and a generality regarding the proliferation of "everybody is an expert", especially from a certain unnamed country. I, myself, usually have something "insulting" (if thats what you wish to call it) in my profile regarding "experts", except I am an EOI (thats Equal Opportunity Insulter, for the anacronym challenged). I insult all "experts" equally. Face it, they earned it when they chose to blatantly lie about their abilities. I am tired of having people claim to be experts that are barely above beginner in their abilities, and I will continue to let it be known, as I see fit to do so. (Mind you, I will never say directly to them at a table "you are not an expert" or anything along those lines) My profile currently says "So many experts, so few X cards...", do I need to change it because I might offend someone claiming to be expert who knows that they are not? I dont think so. If they are offended by this, its only because they know that I am correct in my assessment of their abilities or they are oblivious to the fact that I mean them because they believe they are truly expert. Pigpenz, I hope you changed it to "Better than a "CENSORED BY BBO" expert". :( (rant over, climbs off soapbox, dons flak jacket). From the title, I thought this thread was going to be about some computer freak, not realizing that PC referred to Political Correctness. Guess I am anacronym challenged as well. B)

Seems to me you have answered your own question.....and that your partnership should handle accordingly. 4H p p X p 4N p 5D all pass You have the values to play or defend. It is unlikely that partner will convert to penalty but you will not be unhappy if he does. If partner bids 5C, it rates to be a 5+ card suit, since he shd strive to bid 4S on any appropriate hand (his hand should bid 4S on 3+ spades unless he has a much longer minor suit or two reasonable minor suits). He does, so bids 4N and all is well.

Double dummy, you can take the ♥A, drop the 2nd ♥ on ♣ and the 3rd on ♠. So 6♦ can be made, in theory. Huh? Opp ruffs third round of clubs and cash diamond A, down 1. No?

Yup, you interpret it correctly. That is exactly what happened. :P As a side note, 5H probably would have made....with diamonds breaking and Kxx onside, making matters even worse.

My point exactly. :P

Ben, I am not certain, but my interpretation of the Mid-Chart info is that you may only reference the defense if you are referencing a provided defense If you have a defensive method of your own, you had best know it without referencing it. Exhibit One: Defense Pamphlet (952-114) Management is authorized to make available and maintain a Defense Pamphlet consisting of defenses to SuperChart and MidChart methods. This pamphlet may be used in any event in which these methods are permitted. The defense pamphlet is deemed to be a part of the convention card of a pair using MidChart and / or SuperChart methods. (See the Defense Database on the ACBL web site) OK fine, if you are using a defensive method in the outlined in the pamphlet, you may reference it. Exhibit Two: When using a method permitted by the Mid-Chart but not by the General Convention Chart, a pair is required to: 1. Pre-Alert the method(s)* 2. Have a written description of the method(s) available for the opponents. 3. Except for those methods authorized by sections below with an asterisk (numbers 1, 2, 3, and 10 under ALLOWED), have a copy of the approved suggested defense available for opponents. Approved defenses are available in the ACBL defense database at www.acbl.org. A defense to a method which requires the above pre-Alert may be referred to during the auction by both pairs. This is a little less clear. I would interpret this as referring to an approved suggested defense or the provided defense (as opps may not have one prepared, are probably not familiar with the methods, and how can they use it effectively if they cant look at it?). However, if I have gone outside the realm of approved defenses and created a defense of my own, it would suggest that I am at least somewhat familiar with the meanings of the opponents bids, and since my partnership elected to use a non-approved defensive bidding method, that I am responsible to know it myself, without referring to it. as always, jmoo.

Ok, now the fun part..... Under 1) Depending on my mood and opps, this hand to me is either pass or 3C (possibly 1C in 3rd seat) when playing for fun (if serious, its always pass). Under 2) Since I was playing at a "fun" money bridge table, I thought I would see what happens on a 3C opening. Under 3) IF FOR REAL $$, DONT DO IT!!! Here's what happened: 3C (X) 3S (X) p p 4C p p X all pass. At -1400 (thats $14.00), its too expensive. While I knew in advance that this opening could lead to a disastrous result, never in my life would I have expected the bot to hold the following hand on this auction: [hv=s=shq1098xxxdaq109xxc]133|100|[/hv] Aye yai yai.

Just curious, if partner shows AKQ♦, why didnt he open 3N?

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=sjxxhkjdxxckq10xxx]133|100|Scoring: Rubber[/hv] As south in first seat at favorable vul: 1) What is your opening bid? 2) What is your opening bid if playing with a bot? 3) What is your opening bid if playing with a bot at a money bridge table? (More to the story to come, after some answers.....trust me, its hilarious!!)

It is my belief on suit contract slam hands that it does not pay to double holding a trump stack, unless I am certain I can also beat 6N. That is not the case here. Indeed, doubling 6S loses here when the opps convert to 6N making, turning my plus 50/100/200, into minus 990/1440. Doubling cannot gain enough to offset that kind of loss. ;)

You must be missing something Ben, how can diamonds be 2-2 when there are 5 outstanding diamonds? ;)

Personally, I dont agree with the decision to leave the X in. LHO rates to hold an 8-10 count, and you should be thanking your lucky stars that you are not defending 1N xx'd making, usually with an overtrick. Since this is a lead problem, I will go on the assumption that if you dont find the right lead, that 1N x'd makes, which is another indication that leaving the X in was not the best choice here (not my original phrasing, but changed after deciding it was too harsh) :). It will be relatively easy for declarer to play 1N now, since most of the cards are now marked in partners hand and he will play accordingly. That said, the lead choice is tough, any lead could be right. I dont like the ♦J, as it may give up too many tricks in the diamond suit if dummy hits with Q9xxx, K98xx or similar. I dont like leading any club either, because it may lead partner to think I actually have an entry somewhere (even though he should be able to tell from his hand and dummy that I dont) and real interest in the club suit. Since partner has doubled, and has the entries, lets try to find his suit instead. Partner was probably prepared to bid 2H or 2S over our running from 1N x'd. The one lead that I think is likely to help partner the most is the ♥10 in case partner holds 5-6 hearts to the KJ9 and dummy holds Qx or Qxx. Otherwise, partner may find himself continually endplayed and will never be able to clear the heart suit to take enough tricks to set the contract before declarer takes his 7-8 tricks. Since this is the only holding where my lead is likely to make a difference, the heart 10 it is. As always, jmoo. [Edit]: After further reflection, a spade lead may also work as it is the one suit that my hand does not contain any honor card. Given that the opps are usually prepared (or at least think they are) to handle a spade lead against an auction of this nature, I will stick with my original choice of the ♥10.

Pass is fairly clear cut. The heart Ace rates to be over you, making the HK semi-worthless. Same goes for the diamond suit. It sounds to me more like partner has 3-8 points and 6+ spades (assuming your partnership style is not to make aggressive wjo's). Give partner J10xxxx xx xx Qxx, and he might well balance here. He already knows that your hand contains a reasonable amount of hcp (and probably extra based on the weakness of his hand, and the auction to this point). Dont punish him for making a good call. As far as the original passes go, once you pass the first time, you are almost forced to pass the 2nd time, imo. I would pass the first time also, but I would not claim that an X of 1N is a bad call, either. I prefer to let the opps hang themselves when I am holding this many hcp. Just a matter of style, and trusting your partner to do the right thing, when he ends up in the balancing seat. To bid now, violates that trust. jmoo.