Robert

Hi everyone I posted the comment about weak two bids in Churchill Natural. Sorry, my mistake. I have not read the book since the 80s is my guess. Churchill often talked about 'whiskers'(body or spot cards) Note that my example of A10xxx A10xx xxx x has two 'ten' spots in the long suits. He also used the term 'essential tricks' meaning honor tricks. His methods appear quite different from modern methods, however, he could and often did bid difficult hands with extreme accuracy. Regards, Robert

Hi foo Since you are a Churchill Natural player, would you mind typing the first three words that appear on page 200 in his book? Regards, Robert

Hi foo I do not understand. Do you think that the FN system 'limits' their choice of bids and Churchill natural using much the same methods 'is a great way to develop bidding judgement?' My view of Churchill Natural is that after the 'strange'(different?) methods were adopted, the bidding would often require less judgement compared to almost any other system. Churchill Natural had a great many safe guards that allowed you to bid a hand and still 'limit' the range of the bid. Just responding with a simple one over one bid showed 8+HCP and started a very solid auction. Partner would rebid 1NT with a strong NT and we could take all of that bidding spade to invite game/slam. Try defending a 1M-2M(8+)-4M bid and see how little information you have to defend. ell our period of agreement was short lived but a happy time. :P I never played Churchill natural, I have bid many hands using 'the' methods, but finding a partner that wanted to play a 40s type system just never happened. :) My library has 400+ bridge books, many on systems and I have played nearly everything from forcing pass to natural bidding methods. I currently favor a Big Club system, however, I have played lots of Acol, KS, Precision, assorted Italian methods. You see something in Churchill natural that it 'easily evolves into' KS or Acol? Not light in playing strength? A10xxx A10xx xxx x is a Churchill one bid in 1st seat vul. all 8HCP and eight(8!) count them losers. KS minor openings were very sound. The also played 99.9% five card majors. Churchill normally opened 4 card majors and opened both majors and minors with 8+HCP and a singleton. Acol opened(almost always 7 or less losers if unbalanced) almost as light as Churchill, however, they limited their one bids using Acol Two bids. Churchill had no forcing opening bid in his system. Acol bidding used a 'style' of bid what you think that you can make bidding style. Churchill Natural created a lot of forcing auctions at very low levels. You did not have to force to game after 1 over one suit bid plus a reverse. The one over one bid showed 8+HCP so the reverse was game forcing. The utility NT would never(ever) be made in a KS/Acol style system. Qxxxxx xx xxx xx 1C-1NT with two HCP and a six card 'unbid major' bids a non forcing 1NT in Churchill Natural. Regards, Robert

Hi foo Is that really you? We appear to agree. :P Churchill Natural was published several decades(at least! maybe from the 40s?) ago. He used unlimited one bids(no forcing bid in the system) and he also used very light opening bids. A10xxx A10xx xxx x was opened If you want to play something different. Churchill Natural is the way to go. Weak NTs, four card majors, four weak two bids and 'very light' openings. He used the 'utility' NT over all four suit openings to show values that might reply to a 2NT type opening, including shapes like Qxxxxx of a major and out. Single raises in all suits showed the same 8+ values. Jump raises were(shades of Goren) 'forcing.' A change of suit at the one level showed 8+HCP. I learned the system several decades ago, however, I have not had a chance(partner?) to play the method. At the very least, it would be fun. Churchill held the record for many years(decades?) for having the highest winning score in American play during a major event as I recall. Heavy 'weak' two bids are also nothing new. Trent two bids show a heavy weak two range pretty close to FN style. Roth Stone methods included off shape two bids that started just below the point where his 14+HCP one bids started. Roth would open a 'weak' two bid and rebid to show a 6-5 hand. Many of his fellow experts would open the same hand with a one bid. Roth cut a winning path in American bridge around the 50s as I recall. If FN are paying 'any price' for their methods, the rest of the world had better hope and pray that they do not find a better system. The best bridge players would likely win playing any system is a comment that I often make. FN use fine play, tight defense and good biddding methods to win. Unless the system was hopeless, they would likely do as well playing many other methods. I believe that players pick different methods because they enjoy playing them. foo and I really agreed, go figure. :) Regards, Robert

Hi foo You might want to look at the record of FN. They should be on any list of modern great players. Bridge World claimed that their system bids had a very positive result. The Italians of decades gone by once rolled up a huge lead and said that they would finish the final playing SA methods. They still won big time. :P Blue Team Club is a very tight system. The book often directed a certain bid for a great many hands. The introduction of one version takes note of this fact and suggests that you follow the book bids and note the results. FN likes to play a certain style that they like. It is a winning decision by a great pair. The rest of the world had better hope and pray that they do not somehow find a 'better' system than their current FN methods. Regards, Robert

Hi jillybeans2 I assume that the 4D bid is a cuebid 'in support' of clubs. If you agree to play COG(choice of game) cuebids, the 4D bid asks partner to 'pick a suit. If the COG bidder continues with a later 5C bid, the 4D bid would now show a mild slam try in clubs showing 'a diamond' cuebid(also known as an advance cuebid) Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I prefer to play 1NT as sandwich with 5-5(+) in the unbid suits. If I agreed to play it as natural, this hand would be too weak to bid 1NT in my methods. My methods continue the same as 'if opened' so that 3D bid would be game forcing playing with me. If North overcalled 1NT 'natural' why didn't South simply bid 3NT? Nine HCPs and a decent five card suit opposite a freely bid 1NT overcall when both of the other pair have bid should show a decent 1NT bid. If you have 'no prior agreement' about the 3D bid, you "should not" bid over it. Without a Lebensohl type agreement in place, a suit bid is to play and a cuebid should show game forcing type values. The reason that you should not bid 3NT over the 3D bid is that partner could have bid 3NT all by himself looking at nine HCPs after you bid 1NT. He did not, so I would play him for a weak hand and 6(+) diamonds. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone This is a 'iffy'(poor?) slam. I would likely bid 3NT. Unless you have some luck, 12 tricks just aren't there. A 4-1(or even a 5-0?) break in diamonds is not ruled out, care to play this hand with a 4-1 or perhaps a 5-0 trump break? North has a minimum hand(he did rebid 1NT) with 3 weak trumps and no ruffing value so he should not move. South has some extra values, however, not he is not nearly so strong that he should bid slam by himself 'unless' a swing is needed or you judge that your team is hopelessly outclassed. The bidding methods could stand some serious work. How do you invite slam based on a HCP value bid 'if' 4NT is ace asking? I think that the hand holding the diamond suit 'overbid' facing a known 12-14(11-13?) balanced hand. Try playing this hand with Kxx of hearts rather than AKx of spades and you will see that this was a lucky(?) slam to make. My compliments to the 3NT pair. They appear to be bidding to the proper contract and that is what I want while playing IMPs. They were simply unlucky that the other pair overbid and managed to get a lucky swing. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone This hand is a matter of bidding style and also depends on your estimate of partner. This would be a routine 2S raise if I were playing. If partner is a weak player or one that will have problems playing a 4-3 spade fit, do not raise them. When you have three Aces and a very weak doubleton, the raise to 2S 'stands out' in my bidding style. I like to play 4-3 fits(rather than silly NT contracts without a club stopper) and the play in 4-3 fits is not a problem. You may very well get to a superior 4-3 spade game and 'make it' while the NT bidders lose the first five club tricks or 3-4 club tricks plus a side suit loser or two. No one mentions that even playing 'checkback' methods, very few pairs have methods to check back for a 4-3 spade fit 'when' 3NT is an inferior or even a very bad contract. Playing 3NT from the 'wrong side' is much more likely to be a problem. Partner holding Kx or AQ in clubs might not find it very amusing when you bid NT first and they watch as 3NT goes down because a spade raise was considered a bad thing. If partner is worth a 'checkback' bid over a 1NT bid, this hand is unlikely to be a problem playing any method or style of bidding. If partner is too weak to bid again after your 1NT rebid, the problem might be a serious one. If you raised partner and the other side bids, partner is well placed to compete. When you rebid 1NT, partner is unsure about a possible spade fit. I won a bunch of IMPs many years ago when I bid 1D-1S-2S-4S at my table. Partner looked at my three card raise with a raised eyebrow. He make game with his weakish shapely 5-5 hand. At the other table, they rebid the diamond suit and it went 1D-1S-2D all pass. Responder 'did not' have the values to continue to bid 'without' spade support. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone A support double is a way to show a 'three card' raise in competition. Changing the hands around so that the bidding goes 1H-(P)-1S-(2C)-X the double here would be a 'support double' showing three card support while a 2S 'raise' would promise four trump. The 1H opener would have to switch his diamond and spade holding(and shorten his heart suit) to something like KQx AQJ10x xxx xx Regards, Robert

Hi jillybeans2 'Being tapped' or being 'tapped out' is slang for being forced to trump something. You can either run out of trumps or a defender may have more trumps than you because you were 'tapped out.' Also terms used here might be: ruff, shortened or forced. They all mean much the same, you were forced to trump something. Defenders trying to gain control of the trump suit are sometimes playing a 'forcing game'(trying to gain control of the trump suit by 'forcing you' to trump something. Regards, Robert

Hi foo You stated SA or 2/1 and used Jacoby 2NT. 2NT in SA shows 13-15 balanced and is not a forcing raise. Your jump to 5S to ask for good trumps 'without' a diamond control is bad bridge. If the spade and diamond kings are exchanged your 'custom' methods fail. You now claim to only use 2NT! when you have 'significant extras.' AKxxxx K xx KQxx is a four loser hand in support of a five card 1S opening. Just what significant extras do you require to bid 2NT!? You now also claim to avoid bidding 2/1 without a five card suit. If you cannot bid 2NT! without significant extras and also cannot bid a 2/1 without a five card suit, you will now 'create' an exception to cover another 'promise' that you again failed to keep? Your 'custom' methods also promised four card support for an unbid major "unless you hold three card support" after one of your TO doubles. No other player came up with your 'mature' bidding concept. Jlall was the leading American Junior for last(?) year. His methods did not cope with this hand. Do you really suggest that no one on this forum is a good bidder? I did manage to place second overall in the Australian Bridge Magazine bidding contest for all of last year. Regards, Robert

Hi foo In SA 2NT shows 13-15 balanced and is not(repeat not) a forcing major raise. If partner holds AKxx AKxxx or AKxxxx of spades instead of the diamond king, you are bidding slam without 'any' diamond control. Do your students know that you bid like this? Regards, Robert

Hi foo I lost yet another post. :) hrothgar tells it like it is. You have very little idea of bridge 'if' you think that Aces era Italians* used TO double methods that the Aces might tend to follow. Fashion does dictate bids. KS makes 'shape' doubles with few HCP. The Italians make 'off shape' doubles with minimum hand types. Meckwell currently makes takeout doubles of 1C with 4423 and 1D with 4432 shapes. Your custom methods are not SA and they certainly are not followed by many very good players. Before you try to adopt hrothgar, try something a tad easier like adopt a pride of man eating lions. :) Back to your 'custom' method claim that a TO double promises four card support for an unbid major. jdonn rightly points out that you reply to the Jlall example AKx x KQxx Qxxxx with double, however, you do not have the 'promised' four card support. For shame. Telling lies. :( "...you have to provide good shape information." Unless you tell a lie and only provide 3 trumps when you promised four. :( You are 'old fashioned', why did you want me to call you old fashioned? Telling a lie is bad, being old fashioned is not bad all of the time. It is hard to trust someone that just told a lie and is about to make a 2NT for the minors jump overcall with a 3145 shape over a 1H opening. Why not double like they do in SA? I will try to post this and see 'if' any more problems arise with your chosen 'custom' methods. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Lost another post, somewhat shorter. Try, try again. Hi foo Bidding has everything to do with 'fashion.' The bids mean what the system dictates not the cards. KS makes 'shape' doubles with 8+HCP. The Italians* make off shape doubles to show an opening bid. Changing the subject a bit, just how do you explain the very wide difference in Goren era jump major raises as forcing and modern weak jump major raises? It is the bidding system chosen and not the cards that dictate the bid. Back again. You might want to reconsider the losing trick area if you really think that a 4333 hand with for example four queens has the same number of losers as a 4333 hand with four Aces. Hi kenberg Ken is the boyfriend of Barbie. Back again foo Given the example hand in this post, I would certainly at least invite opposite a Roth Stone raise of a major and I might even bid game opposite a KS style single raise 'if' vul. The system suggests the bid. The bidding style in 'fashion' suggests the bid. The cards have little to do with the system methods chosen. You are claiming that your own 'custom' methods are SA and they are not. The methods of the Aces and the Italians* were not alike. Your claims that they were alike simply does not mesh with the bridge played in that era. As far as current era WC players, Meckwell doubles with 4432 over 1C and 4423 over 1D. They are very good players, however, they have agreed to a style that doubles with less than Goren type shapes. Will try to post this one and start over at page five. Regards, Robert

Hi foo I lost a rather long reply early this morning and just lost a somewhat shorter reply just now. I trust that the third try will finally post. You have very little idea of what SA methods contain. Mike Lawrence writes about 2/1 methods, they are not SA "even if that is your opinion." Mike Lawrence is a very fine writer. I do not agree with all of his ideas and that is fine with him. I certainly do not agree with all(many, most?) of your ideas. :) You post your "custom" methods and claim that they are SA. They are not(repeat not SA) Doubling and raising in 'competition' with 4 trumps is good bridge IMHO. I can also double again to 'show' your extra value hand. I have two ways to bid and your 'custom' methods have only one. :) Mike Lawrence writes 2/1 methods books. He does not write SA books. I certainly do not use SA methods most of the time. I use the best methods that are available, whatever they are. Will try to post this and continue my reply starting at page four. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone You might want to play CONFIT(Control/fit asking) instead of 4NT for Aces. If you do not have 10+ controls, you get to play 3NT. With 10+ controls you may now explore for a fit to play slam. I have played 1NT-3H* and 2NT-3H* as CONFIT for several decades now. 1NT-4C*=a transfer to diamonds in my current methods. 1NT-4NT*=a 'passable' slam try in clubs. I use a lot of Last Train and cuebids to avoid bidding bad(inferior?) slams. The use of Blackwood is to avoid bad slams. The 4NT and 4C bids are both over used. People trot out old Black and sometimes(often?) have no idea of what to bid even after the Ace reply is made. Reese gave up Blackwood as a test for an entire year. He did not miss an Ace asking bid very much and found that 4NT as 'always' natural cleared up many auctions. I was asked by one partner to try that 4NT 'always natural' method and we found that Ace asking was much over rated. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I play that (1M)-p-(1NT)-X is a takeout double of the suit opened. (1m)-p-(1NT)-X is also a takeout double of the suit opened. The (1C)-p-(1D) denying a five card suit is something fairly close to 1C-1NT so I would guess to use the same type meaning for a double. Double ! and I tend to agree on the meaning of double in this auction. B) Regards, Robert

Hi everyone This hand is a wonderful piece of junk that is well worth a 1S bid. You deserve to play 1NT(if you bid that) opposite a 4144 hand. Hi kenrexford A raise to 2S would show 16-18 dummy points. A jump raise is 19-21 dummy points. A jump to 4S is 22+. Show support with support is often more than a very good slogan. A cue bid is not listed in many bridge books, I play that it shows 19+HCP and 3 card support. "Partner please do something smart." I play that I may pass a 'rebid' of the 1S bid 'which does not(repeat not) show any extra spades(it might be a three card suit in a 3433 hand) I am also with Jlall when he raises to 2S 'just showing 4 trumps after they bid 2Hs. I use a double here to show a 'normal' raise to 2S(showing extra values) Hi foo a jump to 3Ss in America tends to be a six(+) card suit and very little else. A cuebid tends to be forcing to suit agreement(unless you have some private agreement that you can pass a suit bid by partner after you cuebid) Opposite a 1S reply that KQxx x AQxx Axxx is worth a 2S 'raise' playing standard methods in America. When you are paid to play, do you provide a summary of 'your methods' so that a student will have some idea of what you are trying to show with your bidding? Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Ogust is fine for a first try at bidding over your own weak two bids. I do not play 5-6 card weak two bids in 1st and 2nd seats. In 3rd seat, all bets are off. 5+ card suits and a much wider range of HCP. I played a lot of Ogust in my early years of bridge. Later I started playing 2NT 'asking' for shortness which seems to get better results. If you are inviting and partner has a 'fitting' shortness, you bid game. If you are inviting and partner has a 'misfitting shortness', you sign off. If 'balanced and max.' partner will drive to game. :) Currently I like to play 2M-2NT=clubs, 3C=diamonds, 3D=hearts(inv. if 2H opened and 'showing' hearts if 2S opened. Partner normally accepts the transfer and you can now 'invite' by returning to his suit 'having already shown values' in the 'transfer' suit. You are using an Ogust type style and exchange additional information because partner will know to place a higher value cards in a given suit 'that you have shown an interest in.' A direct invite 2H-3D* or 2S-3H* shows general values and no concentration of values. Are you max. or min. is the question. 2M-3M 'raise' is a normal type 'blocking bid. Regards, Robert

hi everyone I double 5 hearts. I am "looking at a stiff spade" and partner may well have a trump trick. I would like to cash a heart trick 'if' partner happens to hold a trump trick. Without a heart lead, we may get our trump trick and we might also see the hearts discarded on the solid clubs that the other pair should hold 'if' they bid slam off a trump trick and they also did not hold either red King(which we are looking at!) What are you going to do 'if' partner tanks on the opening lead? He might even decide to lead a trump from xxx or J10x 'thinking' that you did not double for a heart lead. If they bid slam 'without' the heart king(you are looking at that card) they are likely looking at very good cllubs. A diamond lead may not get us a trick and when partner wins his trump trick, there might be time to later 'knock out' the heart Ace. If diamonds are a safe lead, the other pair are overbid when they bid slam or they have solid clubs. I would prefer a heart lead to set up the 'settting trick' and hope that partner either has a natural trump trick or he can ruff in and we can cash our heart trick. Double and hope that we have two tricks somewhere. If partner does have a trump trick, he should be very happy that you doubled to set up a heart trick on the opening lead. :D Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I bid this in my Big Club method and also after a 20-21HCP 2NT playing standard methods and each time I finished at 6C(using CONFIT both times to find the fit) Playing standard methods and opening this hand 1C, I bid to 7C 1C-1D-2H-3C*-3D*-3H*-4H*-4S*-4NT*-5NT*-7C 3C*=game forcing(I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT to show minimum hands) 3D*=cue(not shortness) 3H*=cue 4H*=Kickback RKC for clubs 4S*=one(4130) 4NT*=asks for the trump queen 5NT*=yes and some higher interest(I would cuebid a King at the five level) 7C=looks like a good diamond suit, which I can ruff good 'if' it is not already solid Maybe I should play more standard type methods. :D Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I played a lot of Blue Team Club in the 70s. Four card majors often with canape followups. A convention that I found(Hackett brothers) useful was to invert the 2NT and 3C bid after 1M-2Red-? The 2NT bid showed a club canape with any range and opener bid higher 'if' partner merely bid 3C to show the extra values. If you held a balanced hand with extra values, you bid 1M-2Red-3C* game forcing. You might want to check on the methods that the Hackett brothers played. They liked to open a 4M in front of a six(seven?) card minor. If you like aggressive openings they really like to show those 4 card majors. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Terence Reese's "Precision Bidding and Precision Play" is sound. It points out the weakness areas and often offers 'his' solutions to Precision type bidding. Barry Rigal's "Precision in the 90s" is a favorite of mine and I currently follow many of his ideas using my Big Club methods. If you found the Viking Club interesting, I strongly suggest that you get a copy of "The Power System" by Ron Klinger. It uses relay methods, however, they tend to follow the same set of replies. Hand shapes follow the same path so you only have to learn a limited number of bids. Precision in the 90s also has a short summary of "Symmetric Relays in the Precision System. The Meckwell Precision type methods are posted on bridgeFILES and are also highly recommended just to see what one of the leading Precision pairs play. Regards, Robert

Hi jillybean2 That was simply a suggestion about competitive bidding. Please feel free to post on any subject that you are interested in. You seem to draw a lot of attention with your posts, I tend to respond 'if' I feel that something that I have to post might be of interest to you. Your posts tend to draw a lot of varied interest. Many players use much lighter opening bid standards than I use playing 'limited' opening bids in a Big Club type system. This is merely a matter of style, I can play(and have done so) many very light opening bid systems and/or methods. My weak jump shifts currently show 0-9HCP in my Big Club framework. The 'correct' answer is often a matter of both 'style and system.' I have played systems with very light openers(9+ with a Precision type base, Acol with 9+ openings and assorted systems with 10+HCP floors for opening. Whatever the system, I still used much the same style of bidding. All the bids were made with the knowledge of just how light the opening bid might be. You have to 'know' whether a 1M-2/1-2NT bid is minimum or shows extra values. You should also know whether a raise to three of a minor shows extras, is a sign off or is forcing.(1M-2m-3m?) You appear to like natural methods. I tend to use a lot of conventions and agreements to help me bid to the correct contract. Sometimes a 'wheel comes off' and my partnership has an extended chat over 'what went wrong.' Regards, Robert