Robert

Hi keylime All of your chosen methods are not what I currently play. I do thank you for the additional information, however, several of your choices are just not my cup of tea. 2. I play good/bad 2NT so I can compete and/or force 'without' a fit. 3. If your methods work for you, enjoy them. I am very aggressive in the bidding, however, my chosen bidding are the methods that 'I' like to play. 4. We both agree that the 7-9 value(4+ trump) 3M bid is a good bid. :) 5. If I played in a field that often offers large penalties at the three level, I would of course take up your method here. 6. I like 'fit showing' bids a lot. Non jump 'fit bids' by a passed hand is great bridge IMHO. :) We both play several of the same kinds of bids. We also play different methods in some other places. I am a bridge system nut, with 400+ bridge books. Chances are that I have played almost anything that showed up in Bridge since the late 60s. Forcing Pass, Roman, Neapolitan, Blue Team, Romex, Precision, etc. Regards, Robert

hi everyone I adore two way bids. I use a bunch of 'double' transfer bids to show assorted hands type when the bidding room is too crowded to show the posssible hand types. Natural bidding is good when it works, however, sometimes extra bidding room 'or' better defined auctions will result in better contracts. Sometimes the fact that a 'bidding' auction 'did not' take place will also provide more information to partner. I do not see the value in bidding 1C-1D-1S with min. balanced hands and 1NT with max. balanced hands. The XYZ convention seemed almost too good a bidding tool when I first discovered the convention. That auction 1C-1D-2C showing min. values with clubs and spades 'crowds' the auction and takes away bidding space from responder. Support with support is a really good bidding idea. With diamond support, I raise after a 1C-1D auction. "If' the auction shows 4+ hearts, other methods might be better. I play a Big Club system so my 1C-1D-1NT auction shows 18-20HCP. If I played a natural system, I am sure that I would like to play 1C- transfer replies(assuming that they are legal in ACBL land) Regards, Robert

Thanks keylime A couple of questions/comments. Bidding 2NT as 'either' a long suit or a defensive type limit raise seems very vulnerable to either single raises of the overcall or 'jump' raises(or even letting the overcaller rebid at the three level) How does partner know 'if' he is facing support or is in a misfit auction? If you hold an offensive LR, down one(two?) is not always a good score. If partner opened a dog, bidding game with an offensive limit raise opposite a real dog opening seems to be inferior bidding to me. Maybe at IMPs when I only need to make 38+% of my vul. games to break even, however, non vul. at IMPs or any vul. at MPs, this appears to be a poor gamble. "If" the other pair does not jam the auction, partner will get the correct information, if they do bid, has a wheel come off of our auction? Using the 3NT bid as a splinter gains what? What does 1M-(2Y)-4Y show 'if' it is not a splinter bid? You may avoid a double, however, you are still giving them more room to 'show support' or to make lead directing bids and/or 'fit showing' bids. My defensive auctions would be making 'lead' directing bids by passed hands and 'fit showing' bids by unpassed hands. My 3NT jump would show a desire to play 3NT. My splinter jump cue would show the splinter raise. Why shoulld I give them the room to 'cheaply' show support at the three level? Giving them the 4 level to make some raises, direct leads and/or show fit 'showing' bids seems a large price to pay to avoid a 'possible' double. I switched to the Meckwell style 3M jump as showing 4+ trumps and @7-9 values. It seems to give me better results than the 3M 'weak' style. Thanks again for the added information, Regards, Robert

Hi eveyone Playing Precision you pretty much have to open 1C. The auction would go 1C*-1NT-(2H)-2S- and gets ugly from here forward. I play the Meckwell type of bids here. 1C*-2D*(8-10 bal.)-2H-2S again and I now get to limp into a likely doomed game. Sometimes hands just do not fit the system. This combination is not a good one for Precision. Standard methods will likely have problems with this hand. It has been a while, however, I believe that a 1C bid in Polish is 19+ 'unless' with extreme shapes. Precision tends to give me good results and I strive to work out the kinks. Some hands just cause problems and this is one of them. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone PASS opposite my partnership bidding two spades. At IMPs I am fairly solid, however, playing MPs 'look out.' My style is to put pressure on the other pair. AQ10xx and 'out' often bids 2S W vs R. Since I already bid partners' cards, he should not make a move without some shape. The given hand does not have 'unexpected' shape, so do not hang partner. Just a matter of my partnership style. MPs sometimes rewards crazy bids. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Bid by a fair partnership, 1D-(1H)-X*(=spades)-(2H)-3H-p-3NT-4S all pass Is there a reason that the other pair with 'eleven' hearts never bid above the two level? I do not understand responder moving towards slam with a likely wasted heart King while holding a couple of queen/jacks. It takes 'looking' at both hands to 'see' that the slam might depend on a 'winning' hook. Would you bid the same holding the heart Ace(your first round heart control) and lacking the diamond Ace? Now you are off two cashing Aces, so responder moving towards slam holding the same 'exact hand'(and the exact same bidding) would now be seen as making a big overbid. When you were 'thinking' about bidding 3C...4S, did the idea that a 3C bid over a (2H) raise was 'NOT' forcing. Some(many?) bidders on this forum have recently bid at the three level with 14+ HCP and some shape. Regards, Robert

Hi keylime I also am very interested in your bidding methods in this area. Perhaps a 'hidden' text with a suitable warning for the beginning player(intermeadiate or 'some' advanced players) I am 'not' very concerned that new bidding methods would cause me any possible harm. A PM to neilkaz and myself would avoid any possible harm to newbies, intermediates and some advanced players. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I supect that a cuebid followed by 4S would be best for a pair that ended this auction with a 4C bid. Better a slight underbid in the 'correct' game than a vastly inferior 4-3 contract of 4C. I do use a 4D bid to show powerful 6-4 hands with very good diamonds. The AKQ of spades with a known 5+ card suit opposite is a nice holding 'unless' we have to trump hearts with high trumps and partner does not hold the J109 or J10 of spades. The problem is that you do not have a 6-4 hand and you do have control(void) of the enemy suit. Do not use advanced bidding with a partner 'if' they might not understand your bidding. A 4S bid after the 3H cue would have produced a much better score than 4C. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I agree that the problem with bidding two hands 'without'knowing the details of the system makes the bidding decision much more difficult. Strong jump shifts in Blue Team Club show 12+HCP 'with' a good suit and are game forces. 1. I am bidding slam, unless playing a Blue Team Club type SJS. 2. I am bidding higher, is a 4C bid forcing using these methods? Why I did not show a side suit of AKxxx before supporting clubs is 'not' my normal bidding style. Regards, Robert

Hi jillybeans2 What would a double of the 2D overcall be 'if' you do not play support doubles?(promising 3 card support) I like to play almost all low level doubles as 'card showing' takeout type bids. If the double of 2D overcall would have been penalty, I would bid 3D as a game force. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I would have overcalled 1S with your partner's hand and never even sniffed at 3NT. Well bid. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone 3S Bridge is a bidders game and this hand screams for a 3S bid. It could go wrong 'if' you have a poor pair opposite that do not play maximal doubles. That 3H bid by a decent pair merely suggests a nine card fit. I make a lot of doubles, however, this hand seems much more like a 3S bid than to give partner a choice. If partner holds a stiff spade, your double may pay off, however, 'if' you double with this hand partner will be pulling on many more auctions where he should be passing for penalty. With xx of spades opposite AKxxx J Kxxx Axx partner would pass a double of 3H and your side would still be taking tricks for a long while. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone People who pass 1H doubled with Q109xx 'in front' of the Heart opener will not be playing with me again 'unless' there is a great deal of money involved. I like to walk the dog. It is very unlikely that 1S will be passed out. Don't the other pair play negative doubles? They might even play weak jump raises. I often raise partner to 2Hs with a total of 6+ dummy points. They might even play weak jump shifts or fit-showing bids in competition. Partner should expect a very good hand from me if the bidding goes, (1H)-1S-p-p-something-3S. I will not expect much in the way of trump support and you really should raise me to four with an Ace 'or' a combination of possible/likely 'one trick playing' value. Is only the other pair capable of finding a fit or showing values in this auction. Perhaps partner will show some signs of life? Kaplan would have overcalled 1S is my guess. Fred seems to also like that idea. My style for many years was to overcall will some very decent hands, maybe it is not such a bad idea after all? Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I play that double and forcing pass are reversed in many auctions. Opening 2C would certainly provide the values for my bidding. I would double here for takeout, 'if' partner choose to pass my forward going double, I would expect a bloodbath to take place. Without prior agreement, I would lay the double as 'I do not think we have game' do as you wish. Pass should be forcing here in 'standard' methods. I concur with Marlowe 'if' pass had been forcing, I would now bid 3H over the double. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone 4NT is natural in my methods. When were diamonds agreed? Why didn't I jump to 4NT over 3D 'to agree' diamonds? Have you never held a misfit and wanted to bid a natural 4NT? You use 4sf and follow up with a natural NT bid 'when you are' out of range for a natural NT 'that might be passed.' I use Kickback RKC for the minors to 'agree' suits and ask for key cards. Some pairs use 3D-4D as RKC(which would solve the problem here), however, it is not a method that I would want to play. That comment that 5H* would be the trump queen ask 'if' the 4NT had been RKC for diamonds is also correct. "If" you are off two Key cards and want to stop in 5NT, you bid an 'unbid suit'(5S) to force partner to bid 5NT and you can now pass. I use a GSF method that shows 'extra trumps' so that I can bid a Grand 'holding' ten trumps 'without' the trump queen. Bidding 2C-2D holding AKxxx of clubs 'plus' a side King quite simply amazes me. What at the values needed to make a positive reply to this 2C opening? Do you really need three quick tricks plus a suit of AKxxx to bid 2C-3C? Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometimes. This pair should go over their bidding methods or never play together again. With a subminimum 2C opening, just open with a one bid. Sometimes having the values promised is not a bad idea. 5NT in reply to the trump queen ask should promise something extra(normally a side king) It would deny the club King since you could bid 6C with that holding. Holding that hand opposite a 2C opener, would the bid of an ace asking 'exclusion' bid possibly be of any use? It would agree diamonds and also 'avoid' asking for aces 'when one of them may or may not be in your void suit.' Lucky bridge, not good bridge. Neither partner showed much skill in the bidding. They bumped and bounced into a makeable contract. Another time, they would end up in a doubled contract 'missing' a cashing Ace or two. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Takeout for me. Partner's double was penalty showing values. "If' I hold a trump stack, he should double for takeout at his next turn to bid. If is hold a takeout type hand, I can double for 'takeout.' I do play 'takeout' doubles over my 1NT opening so this method is merely following the chosen bidding path. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone No way. I play that 1C promises 16+ and this is not a 16HCP hand. Downgrading 'problem' minimum 1C openers into the non 1C bids appears to both improve my bidding and reduce the problem areas in my Big Club bidding. I have changed over to the Meckwell school of 'upgrading' a good seven card suit into a 1C opening, however, I do not see any seven(six?) card suit in this hand. I will pass that 1D-1NT bid as I play that responder bids 2m with 10HCP. The 1NT reply will be @6-9 At IMPs vul., I would invite with 2NT, however, that is only because you only need to make 38+% of your games vul. at IMPs. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Big Club system with a 'couple' of toys added to the system. 1. 1C=16+, 2D*=8-10, 3D, 3S(Cue, do not want to bypass 3NT 'if' slam is not on the horizon), 4C=cue, 4D=waits, 4H*=RKC(4130), 4S*=none, 4NT*=asks trump queen, 5S*=yes plus King of Spades, 7NT 1b. Without the spade king or heart queen: 1C, 1D=0-7(0-6 vul.), 2S*=5-5 minors, 3C=attempt to sign off, 3H*=numeric shortness(spades), 4C=attempt to sign off, 4D*=Kickback RKC(4130), 4S*=zero, 4NT*=asks trump queen, 5C=no, 5NT*=Last Train, begging for 7C, 7C='if' you can bid 6C by yourself with 5-5 minors, I do have the diamond queen which should be worth a trick. 2. 1C, 1D, 1S*=4+ spades F1(forcing one round), 1NT*=0-5(other bids are possible with 'some' 5 point hands), 3D*=5+ spades and diamonds, 3H*=waits (if partner has a 6S and 4D hand, he can rebid 3S over 3H), 4D, 4S, 4NT*=RKC, 5D=zero, 5S 3. 1C, 1D*, 1S*(4+, F1), 1NT*=0-5..., 3H, 3S=waits, 4H, 4S, 4NT*(RKC), 5D*=no, 5H*=trump queen ask?, 5S=no 4. 1C, 2D*=@8-10 bal., 2S, 2NT, 3D, 3H*(cue, why bypass 3NT 'if' slam is not available?), 4C*cue, 4D=waits, 4H*=Kickback RKC, 5D*=zero, 5H*=trump queen ask, 5NT*=yes, and heart king also, 7D 5. 1C-1S*=5+ Hs(GF=game force), 2C*=spades(Meckwell style), 2D(bidding 'around the clock' to show shortness later), 3C, 4S, 4NT*(RKC), 5C*=one, 7S 'played' by NORTH*** Sometimes the system 'works!' 6. 1C-1D-2H*=hearts 'strong' two or 25+ bal., 2S*=forced, 3C*= 5+Hs and clubs 3D=2nd neg., 4H 7. 1C, 1S*=5+H GF, 2NT*=minors, 3C, 3S=cue, 4H=cue, 4S*=RKC, 6C*=one plus a void, 7C 8. 1C, 1D*=0-7(0-6 vul.), 1S*=4+ F1, 1NT*=0-5..., 3H, 3S*=waits, 6S I am somewhat surprised that you feel that the field bids big hands badly. They bid most hands in a non optimum style. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I switched to 'negative' doubles over 1NT and it seems to get me more, not less penalties. It also has a upside that holding 4-3-2-4 pattern with a doubleton(or tripleton?) in their suit, what do you bid 'if' you are playing penalty doubles? Doubling on 'just' HCP led to not uncommon foul results during my KS weak NT days. Doubling on three cards is normally decent, when partner also holds three trumps, however, after partner 'passes' playing penalty doubles, he might have 2 or 3 trumps. You normally do not want to defend when the other side has an eight card fit(and sometimes a nine card fit when both of you hold 2 trumps) Some do play the 'forcing' aspect as limited to 2m, however, It seems to me that it should clearly be used over a 2H bid. The jury is still out on whether you should play negative doubles over a 2S bid. I still play them here, however, with somewhat less 'faith.' Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Meckwell somitmes tends to blast contracts to 'deny' the other pair information about the contract(my guess) I suspect that 'if' Meckwell opens 2NT with 19HCP, this would suggest that slam attempts would be based around that 'bottom' range. Hi hrothgar I find 2NT openings 'that are narrowly defined with decent methods after 2NT are not the slam killers that many believe them to be. My methods use a both transfers and double transfers to both save space and hopefully tell partner the information that he might need. I hope that I am not 'fixating' on HCP 'point.' I stress controls and how the hands 'fit' in my partscore, game and slam bidding. The value of a hand may change dramatically as the 'fit' or 'nonfit' is shown during an auction. I found your simulation results extremely interesting, however, I try to build my system methods to follow the same path in as many auctions as possible. In addition, I strive to place the contract in the strong hand as often as possible. Your 4H bid showing three Aces, but denying any high trump honor would place the contract in the 'wrong' hand. Game contracts outnumber slam contracts, so I try to bid my games first and attempt to get to decent(good?) slams only after the game bidding. Your suggested bidding costs me several of my favored methods. I would lose 4H*(Last Train)and I also use both 4C and 4D to show shortness. Double transfer bids permit three shortness showing 'suits' by using the 4m bids as double transfer bids. The cost of your suggested methods is much to high for my chosen methods. I have discarded many bidding methods because of their cost. I examined garbage Stayman and found that it showed gains over a large number of auctions. I just cannot use garbage Stayman because it costs me other more useful methods. A great deal of information is exchanged by both the use and non use of bids. My auctions tend to define fairly clearly the goal and values in many auctions. Aren't you a relay player, these methods would seem to fit very well into a relay type method. I live in ACBL land and so I am banned from bidding a relay system. We must protect the great unwashed public from a 1C bid that shows hearts. Again many thanks for your helpful input. Whether I select a method or not, I am a bridge systems collector and I do like to be aware of what is out there. I am new to Turbo, so I fully expect to have to change my approach as difficult hands show me that my current methods are not working. Best Regards, Robert

Hi everyone I play both good/bad 2NT and support doubles so 2NT to show a distribution bid 'with less than three spades.' Mike777 If 3C shows 14+HCP and two good suits, what do you do with 17-18HCP? Partner gets to take a view of your bid showing 14-18 with no room to explore. Regards, Robert

Hi hrothgar We appear to share very different views on fast arrival. :) No one except my partner uses all of my methods. You chose to use 3S* to show an odd number of controls, I like to use it to show extra values. I have a very strong opinion of the use of 3S here. If you do not like 'fast arrival' style bidding, what do you bid over 3H* 'if' 3S* shows an odd number of controls and slam interest? 3NT would seem to deny a spade fit and you already suggested that 4C-4H should be cuebids 'showing' an odd number of keycards. Why show your controls to a responder that is most likely to just be bidding game about 90+% of the time. That other pair might be listening and I do not want them to be bored with any 'exact' information that they do not 'need to know.' I am a very big fan of Last Train(4H* here) so the 4H bid is not available for use as a control bid. Would you really bid 4H here to show an odd number of controls 'without' a control in either minor? If you are a confirmed 1st round control fan, please disrecard my last question. I am a new convert to Turbo, so your comments are of more than a little interest. If we do not agree on somethings, we have at least exchanged information. Best regards, Robert

Hi everyone I play that pass 'asks' partner to double and double* is forward going in high level auctions. Double* for me here. If partner has a heart stack(or wasted) heart values and he wants to defend 'after' hearing me suggest bidding higher, there should be blood on the table. I am playing partner for 18+-19 balanced HCP. Did he really forget that we play splinters? With long clubs and four card support, he should bid 4C to indicate his hand type. I am all in favor of trusting the other pair, howeve, some people do take 'gambles.' If partner is passing my forward going double of 5Hs, they could have taken their life in their hands and found that the parachute is not(repeat not) working. This is certainly a forcing pass situation by my standards. Partner holds @19HCP balanced and I hold my promised minimum in HCP 'plus' some extra shape. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone The auction is not changed by bidding 2/1 methods. My 2NT bidding is the same in all of my serious play except that the range for 2NT changes slightly according to the system played. My Big Club method shows 21-22HCP and playing 'natural' type methods 2NT would be 20-21HCP. 2NT-3C*-3D*-3H*-3S*-4H*-4NT*-6S 2NT=20-21 3C=puppet stayman 3D=no 5 card major 3H=shows 4 spades, denies 4 hearts 3S=4 spades and some slam interest, otherwise bid 4S 4H*=Last Train, since you show some slam interest, I will indicate some more. 4NT*=Turbo 4NT showing an 'even' number of Key cards 6S=no promises, however, it should be a good slam most of the time. Puppet Stayman does not add any measure of extra bidding IMO. Before I switched to puppet(to deny 'extra' information to the other pair) I would have bid 2NT-3C-3S-4H*-4NT*-6S 3C=Stayman 3S=spades 4H=Last Train, slam interest 4NT=Turbo 4NT shows an 'even' number of Key cards 6S=no promises, however, it should be a good slam most of the time. I play that a 3H* bid over either a 1NT or 2NT opening bid is CONFIT asking for the number of controls held and later seeking suit fits. The fact that I used Stayman instead of bidding 3H* strongly suggests that my hand is unbalanced. I strongly up grade this 2NT hand when partner shows both 4 card spade support and some slam interest. You hold 4 key cards, good trumps, good controls and a possible ruffing value in diamonds. A long time ago I read that 'if' you hold good trumps and partner suggests slam, you should bid the slam as he has weak trumps and is still suggesting slam. Meckwell often 'upgrades' hands to the next level. I would guess that 19HCP and some 18 HCP hands would open 2NT in Meckwell hands. His partner might not want to 'suggest' slam opposite a likely 19(18?) HCP hand. My bidding style is to open decent 20HCP hands and open one of a suit with a 'slightly' undervalued 20HCP hand. Regards, Robert

Hi everyone Playing 1S as forcing is a style that I like, however, without discussion I would assume that many players might pass. With the current example hand, I would likely be delighted 'if' partner felt that he had responded on a minimum(sub minimum hand and he passed. This exception to my viewpoint still does not cause me to shift away from my chosen style of 1D-1H-1S forcing bidding style. I feel that the gains from my bidding style gain more in the long run. What pray tell does opener bid holding extra values and 4=3=5=1 'if' 1S is not forcing? You miss game opposite the xxx KQxxx xxx xx hand types. Or do you jump shift and find Jxx Qxxx xx QJx that you have forced to game 'without' an eight card fit or anywhere near game values. I do not see the problem with partner bidding 2Ss holding four card support and 6-9 dummy points. Why would opener continue to bid without values for game opposite the 8-9 range? Even 'if' responder promised 8-9 dummy points to raise to 2S, what reason does opener have to bid on with some random 14 count? Jump shifts 1D-1H-2S* should promise game values(19+) A reverse bid may be made on 17 HCP and some 'pure' 16 counts xxx AKxx AKQxx x after 1D-1S-2H Reverse bids are not game forcing, however, I do play them as a one round force. In some bridge games, that 3H bid is forcing. The modern style shows an invitation type hand. Regards, Robert