1. I should have said "any hand with 17+ hcp", not "any strng hand". My bad. 2. As a matter of judgment, I agree that I wouldn't make a sjs without a decent 5 card suit at the 2 level or a decent 6 at the 3 level, but in fact the sjs in sayc isn't restricted as to hand type, and if you are playing with a pickup pd, with no discussion, and pd makes an sjs, you had better be prepared for any hand with 17+ hcp, regardless of shape. Peter