pbleighton

Dwayne - Would you provide us with a brief summary of Southern EHAA - at least the description of the opening bids? Peter

Richard - Another question on your first post: The bad results you refererred to in you experience of EHAA twos - how did they work at matchpoints?

Richard - welcome back - we missed you - it's been far too fractious around here wiithout your soothing presence :) I'm interested in this system because I have become very interested in "Extreme Preempting" recently. My partner and I have been becoming more and more aggressive, and so far the results have been excellent, as well as FUN. I am attracted to EHAA (not least because it's GCC legal, and I can play it at my club), but I am also interested in other alternatives, particularly Frelling and Lorenzo (NV). I think the "Polish EHAA" structure could be used with other weak two structures, though the 1 of a suit opening requirements would have to be loosened a little. Richard, if you had 2C available to you as weak, what would you do with it? 4+ clubs and 4 of a major seem a natural extension of Frelling, but would you do something else? I have spent some time looking at Boling's structure, and I have one VERY big problem with it . After a 1H, 1S, or 1NT response to 1C, he advocates 2C as showing the strong hand, with the responder usually bidding 2D to allow a natural bid. This means that the 1NT rebid is either min with clubs or 14-17 bal. This is not only inaccurate, but it would occur very frequently. I think the Polish approach of using 2D as an artificial game force, and leaving 2C as natural is much better. I suggest the following: Opening Bids (not including weak 2s) 1C - 12-18 hcp, 4+ Clubs, or 14-18 Bal, or 19+ 1D - 12-18 hcp, 4+ cards 1H/1S - 12-18 hcp, 5+ cards 1NT - 10-13 hcp 2NT - 20-21 hcp Bidding After 1C 1D - 0-5, any shape 1H/1S - 6+ hcp, 4+ cards 1NT - 6-9 hcp, may have long diamonds 2C - 10+ hcp, 5+ cards, no 4 card major 2D - 10+ hcp, 5+ cards, no 4 card major 2C - 10+ hcp, 5+ cards 2H/2S - 0-5 hcp, 6+ cards 2NT - 10-11 hcp, bal, no 4 card major 3C - 6-9 hcp, 5+ cards, no 4 card major 3NT - 12-15 hcp, bal, no 4 card major Bidding After 1C-1H/1S 1S - 12-18 hcp, 4+ cards 1NT - 14-17 hcp 2C - 12-18 hcp, 5+ cards 2D - 19(18)+ hcp, artificial game force 2M - 12-15 hcp, 5+ cards 2 Other Major - 19+ hcp, 5+ cards 2NT - 18-19 hcp 2C - 12-18 hcp, 5+ cards 3C/3D - 19+ hcp, 5+ cards 3M - 16-18 hcp, 4+ cards 3NT - 20+, if you want to bid it 4M - 19+ hcp, 4+ cards Bidding After 1C-1NT 1S - 12-18 hcp, 4+ cards 1NT - 14-17 hcp 2C - 12-18 hcp, 5+ cards 2D - 19(18)+ hcp, artificial game force 2H/2S - 19+ hcp, 5+ cards 2NT - 18-19 hcp 2C - 12-18 hcp, 5+ cards 3C/3D - 19+ hcp, 5+ cards 3NT - 20+, if you want to bid it There are then only three weaknesses with the above I can see versus 2/1 (playred with a sound opening style) in the bidding of 12-18 hands: 1) The 1NT response may have long diamonds, and you may wish you could bid 1D on these hands. OTOH, the 2D bid handles the long diamond invitational of GF hands better than a 1D response, as it denies a 4 card major and is more difficult for the opps to bid over. 2) You lose the strong NT. More than made up for by the weak NT, IMO, but that is a subject for another thread. 3) After a 1C opener, you cannot reverse (you can't in PC either). These hands are very rare, and with 18 hcp, it's pretty safe to use the 2D artificial game force. Against these disadvantages, you have the limited range of the 1D, 1H, and 1S openers, and the guarantee of 4 cards in the 1D opener. I think the 1D opener in particular is quite superior. The combination of 4+ cards, weak NT, and inverted minors should be very powerful. I think (though I haven't tested this yet) that this structure will bid the 19+ hcp openers overall at least as well as 2/1 (not that this is saying much). The strong 2C opener is IMO dreadful, and the 19-21 hands can be passed out, and are clunky to bid even when they are not. What do people think of this? Peter

"No, I don't HAVE TO guess. Playing good-bad-2NT solves allmost all problems after a weak-2 bid. But ofcourse we have to play at least at level 3 then... " ...and down one is good bridge, especially against a preempt! ;D

Free writes: "Have you ever played this system against good players? Because I think your weak-2 openings won't hold me out of game, and won't put me in an impossible game... " I'm sure that you are a good player, but do you guess right every time? :) Michael - 1) I'd like to play sometime - I'm pbleighton online too - warning though I am VERY intermediate ;D 2) Do you never open 3 level preempts in EHAA? If so, why not? Peter

I found this on the web: http://www.abo.fi/~jboling/bridge/ehaap.pdf or you can download the ehaa.pdf doc from http://www.abo.fi/~jboling/bridge It takes EHAA and puts all of the 19+ hcp hands into 1C, so it is a 2 way club, and adds some conventions and treatments. 1D response to 1C shows < 6 hcp. Strong hands are shown by either jumping on rebid, or 2C if the response is 1H, 1S, or 1M (which it will be about 70% of the time). 2C and 2D are inverted minor responses to 1C. EHAA has interested me before, but it seemed not precise enough in its bidding. I wonder what you think of: 1) The accuracy of this revised system. Can it be reasonably competitive? 2) The 2C through 2S openings are weak, played as semi-mandatory with 5+ cards. Online, with no regulations to worry about, what is the best use of these openings? I thought of Frelling 2D and 2H (maybe 2S, though I have reservations about it), with 2C either some sort of Frelling/Ekrens 2 suited structure (clubs and a major, clubs and Ds or Hs, or clubs and another). 3) It uses 10-13 as a NT range. Maybe 11-14 is better, to reduce the NT rebid range? 4) If I want to use this as a 5 card system, it seems easy enough to do so, adding strong NT as a hand type. It would then become "Polish EHAA", though Polish uses strong NT vs. weak. Peter

Is there a version which is tailored to Precision, with its 11-15 hcp range? I have thought of something like: 3 of another suit: singleton, max values (14-15, or 13 with a good 6 card suit) 4 of the major: Min, with or without a singleton 3 of the major: Max hand, good suit (2 out of top 3 honors) 3NT: Max hand, bad suit Min/max subject to hand quality adjustment, of course. Any better suggestions?

"4SPADES could be weak or strong... that is, once opener limited his hand, EAST is free to bid however he likes.. he is the captain. Having said that, NO ONE typically preempts to 4S when their partner opens 2H. For one thing, their partner has some points, and they must too. For another it is hard to make 5 of a minor...so... i think the 4S bidder thinks he is going to make this contract... he may not of course. An advantage of DOUBLE for takeout... If RHO is kidding around, partner can pass for penatly, or if RHO thinks he can make it, but he runs into a 5-0-1 or similar trump split, then your partner may pass for penatly. When your partner has some ho-hum hand, he can bid a good minor or 4NT to find out if you have a good preference." I think the hohum hand is much more likely, and you will wind up playing at the five level. Assuming 18 total tricks, and assuming opps can make 10, you will be down three, most probably doubled, for 500, vs 420 for letting the opps have their game. What am I missing? Peter

Playing sayc with a pickup pd, we bid OK except for one hand. The bidding went: P-2S(partner)-DBL-3S-4H-4S-DBL-P-P-P Pd had AK98xx-Qxx-10x-9x. I had Qxx-J8-xx-A10xxxx. Pd claimed I needed more than I had to raise to 3S - I said I was "just competing". How do you play 3S in this auction? The vul was unfavorable. What would you have done with my hand, and do vulnerability and the opps double make a difference? Without the opps double, I would have hesitated due to unfav vul, but probably bid 3S anyway. Only one other pair was in 4S - also doubled - like us they were down two. A few were in 3S undoubled down one for a middle score. 4H and 5C by the opps failed by one. 3C was the best contract for the opps. Peter

"Then I opened 1h with: Axx, 8765, xx, AKQx. Pd bid 2NT showing 8-11 with 4 or five hearts and no singleton. Vulnerable all. 1) What do you bid?" How do you invite to game? 3H? Do it. "Nobody vul: x, xx, ATxx, AKQxxx LHO Pd RHO You 2h p 4s ? 2h was a weak 2 and 4s "to play" 2) do you bid? what?" "4s "to play"" - I assume this means a good hand with a decent shot at making. If so, pass. Ben - you are the guru of LOTT :) Would you explain why you would bid 5C? Do you assume 4S is weak? "KJ9x, xx, AQx, AKxx LHO Pd RHO You 1c 1d p 1h p 2h 3d p ? 1c was strong (15+), pd pass showed 0-5, your second pass showed 15-18 and no heart stopper. 3d is natural, 4-5 HCP and a diamond suit. 3) Do you bid? What?" Pass.

Four extra tricks ;D

Double.

A pair at my club, who plays Precision, plays 2NT as both minors and weak. They alert it. Precision Today recommends this bid as long as you use 1C-1D-1H as a relay to identify monster balanced hands. Peter

Congratulations richard - a nasty one. 1) Double. You'd like to have another spade, but what other bid do you have? 2) 2NT, after which you will pass partner's 3 clubs (if I understand Lebensohl correctly. This is a weak hand. With another spade, however, I would bid 3S. (3) The two hands don't appear to be from the same deal :- - duplicate SA, D4, and CQ.

Misho writes: " HCP and its evaluation is imortant part of counting the tricks ( dont forget the final target ), but only part. If you like I can try to post ways of counting tricks during bidding which i know and use." Yes please!

Ron writes "No, Peter I don't agree. Look at your hand, do you have fitting honors, do you have fillers - Ts and 9s, do you have a decent 5 card suit? If you have these upvalue your hand. If you have a sterile distribution - 4333 and unsupported honors, downvalue your hand. This is much better than counting points." I wrote in my question: "...Both plus/minus "quality" points (intermediates, trump support length, location and quality of honors)." I am not trying to be a mechanical point-counter (o horror of horrors ;)), but I am trying to get some idea of quantifying the distributional aspect of hand valuation. Is it your position that one shouldn't assign specific value to length and shortness in hand revaluation when a fit is found, as the beginning but not the end of the revaluation process? You have given me a lot of good advice in this Forum (I've even taken some of it :)), but I don't really understand how I would implement your "free-floating revaluation" with my level of bridge experience, though I'm sure it works for you. Any suggestions? BTW, on my last question, do you agree that the weak NT reduces the game-going point requirement (regardless of how the responder revalues his hand)?

"AKxx Ax x AKxxxx or AKQx QJx KJx Axx or .... Will you open obove hands with 1CL? If answer is "YES", will you still agree with pass? Misho" Yes, because I will open Kx-Qxx-Jxx-KQ10xx 1CL - far more frequently, at least with the cards I am dealt ;D

I'm interested in revaluing hands when a major suit fit is found, what should be the combined point count for game, and how weak NT affects the responder's calculations. 1) I have seen 2 methods for valuing dummy: a) 3 for void, 2 for s/t, 1 for doubleton, plus points for long suits. ;) 5 for void, 3 for s/t, 1 for doubleton Both plus/minus "quality" points (intermediates, trump support length, location and quality of honors). Which do you prefer, or do you like another way? 2) Method a seems to be the consensus for the declarer. I have seen suggested that you don't count the first doubleton (Bergen) and 2 points for each card past 5 (also Bergen). How do you value declarer hands? 3) After revaluation, what combined hcp do you feel comfortable with going to game with? 3NT can be made with 25 or a good 24, but I like to see 26 for a suit contract, or else you wind up with the opps having too many aces and kings for you to make the contract. Do you agree? 4) With regular pd, I open most 11 counts. NT is 11-14. We aopen almost all 11-14 balanced hands 1 NT to avoid rebidding problems (NT rebid shows 15-17). The exceptions are 5332s with excellent 5 card suits, and 4432s with 2 4 card majors. My opinion is that the weak NT opener strengthens the one of a suit openers sufficiently that the responder can use 11-12 (revalued) points as the inviational range, and go to game with 13. Without the weak NT, it would be dangerous because of the light openers, but with the weak NT if you are light you have shape. Ther 4432 2 4 card major hands I ignore for this purpose, as they are fairly rare. Do you agree?

I'd like some guidance from the advanced/expert players on when to bid 3NT, versus leaving the contract in a minor suit part score. I see two things: 1) Discussions of ways to show/ask for stoppers. The "scientific" approach. 2) At the table, the field seems to barge into 3NT with 24/25+ combined hcp when no major suit fit is found, with or without stoppers, unless it is VERY obvious that the contract belongs in a minor suit. I tend to barge right along, on the theory that an intermediate usually isn't smart enough to outbid the field. How often are you "scientific" and how often do you barge are you, and what techniques do you prefer when you are scientific? Peter

"Now u cant bid clubs - so what " So pass. What else? You need a reason to bid with 5 hcp, and you don't have one.

trefl44 writes: "5-9 -> 11% 10-14 -> 39% 15+ -> 14% You will pass 27% of the time (not much room left for the opps). Any comments?" Richard responds: "Your script might be off. I have some fairly complete dealer scripts for other more aggressive MOSCITO variants. Even with these, I rarely opened more that 65% of hands." Two possibilities strike me: 1) 11 + 39 + 14 = 64. Meaning 36% of hands are passed, in line with Richard's models. 2) If 1) doesn't apply for some reason, are you sure you aren't double counting some hands, i.e. putting a hand into two bids if it qualifies for both? Peter

Luis writes: "Peter, Please don't ever think about opening this hand 2s, you have 2 aces, defensive values and a side 4 card heart suit, if your side belongs to hearts you lose the suit and it will be very hard for pd to understand that you opened 2s with 6 losers, 2 aces and two good suits." Luis - thank you for the advice. Up until a month ago, I wouldn't have considered opening it 2S. However, I read Robson/Segal's Paertnership Bidding (just the Pressure bidding chapter), and my regular pd and I have been playing it, though cautiously when vul, and a bit cautious when NV 2nd seat. The results have been MUCH better than expected, so far (but not nearly enough hands to really judge). We are searching for the "outer limits", and we figure to learn them mostly by getting burned at the table, but advice is welcome. On this hand: 1) Would you open 2S (if you didn't open 1S, which is a better bid) in the first seat? In the third? 2) What if the HA was changed to the Q? Peter

"Sp AJ10632 H A1086 D 82 Cl 2 In second seat u hear pass - what do u bid? If u passed - it goes: pass, pass, 1 Heart, pass, 1NT - it is back to u, now what do u bid?" 1) I open light - with regular pd 1S, with pickup pd 2S. 4 nice hearts - tough. I won't pass this hand. 2) This is why I won't pass this hand. 2S.

"Sp 2 H KQ3 D KJ2 Cl Q86432 1. In fourth seat non-vul against vul u hear 1Sp, pass, pass - what do u bid? 2. If u bid anything but pass - what do u expect or hope to hear from p? 3. U bid 2Cl - partner bids 2NT - opps pass - now what?" 1) 2C - with a 4th heart i would double. 2) Expect a pass, hope for 3C. 3) Pass.

Luis - thanks 1) I didn't post the hands because a) I didn't remember them B) , and B) I am interested in the general meaning of the bidding sequence. 2) When you say 3S asks for controls, would you include a singleton or void? 3) If the bidding went 1S-2H-3C-3S-4C What is 3S asking for (since you don't have the slow arrival choice between 2S and 3S), and what is 4C showing? Peter