luis

Tks for posting let's how you did: I wasn't sure about 5d, why can't be 5d "to play" after all it's my first turn to bid and they are at 5c. I just bid 6s. Not good. Pd's hand: AKxxx, AJ, KJxxx, x Kindof a nightmare.... My pd bid 6h, not good again..... My hand: xx, AKxxxx, KQxxx, - Maybe I shouldn't bid 5d, who knows. I opened 1NT and over 4n bid 5c showing 1 ace, we play that we "accept" cuantitative NT's showing aces to avoid playing 6 with two aces missing. He bid 5s and I rebid 5NT ending, the auction, right or wrong? I don't know :-) pd's hand: AKJx AJT Qxx Kxx They lead a spade and the h finesse was off, so we bid and made 5NT, most of the field was in 6N making after a diammond lead and the Ace from RHO, yes they do have AJT987 of diammonds between them and somehow had to play the dA on the first trick.... A very wrong play since if declarer needs the h finesse you can always cash the dA after taking the hK and if he doesn't need the h finesse then he needs 2 diammond tricks....

I'd have doubled (too strong for 1h, bad shape for Michs) p p 1c x p 1s p 2h p 4c p 4d p 4s p 4n p 5c p 6h 2h = strong and 5+ cards (intending to bid 4s next,maybe) 4c = SPL with 4 h support (and 4+spades) 4d = Cue 4s = Cue 4n = RKCB 5c = 1/4 6h = well.... Seems to be a likely action.... The risky issue here is that either player can get "nervous" and blast to 4M.

Fully agree and I'd like to suggest that you should keep the 2NT bid as a powerful two suiter when they open 1NT, my idea is that most chances to win a game after they open 1NT come from two-suited hands. And you don't want your pd to pass your 2x bid. Summarizing you should have at least ONE forcing bid to use if they open 1NT just in case. That's why I like "TDONT" (Twisted DONT) A treatment I recommend to DONT players: dbl: one suited hand 2c: c+other 2d: d+M 2h: h+s 2s: Some preempt at the 3 level 2n: Powerful 2 suited hand 3c: Both Minors (5-5) weakish 3d: Diammonds and a major (5-5) weakish 3h: Majors (5-5) weakish

The 1c opening is, as usual, the weakest link in a strong club auction, I would say we get some interference in about 40% of the hands we open 1c. Note that moscito uses relays over all the openings, the real strength of the system is being able to get the full distribution of opener after a 1h or 1s or 1d 10-14 opening bid where it's hard to interfere because you may be preempting your own side. 2) Your question is very interesting so I'd comment what are our agreements to defend after our 1c bid is overcalled. a) No interference About 60% of the time, balanced hands, bad hands without a biddable suit, etc. Strongish hands usually pass to because they don't know what to bid. B) Interference from dbl to 1S They never double because they don't know if that means clubs or if it means a normal takeout being 1c artificial. The double or 1d intereferences are actually good for the system since you have even more bidding space, over double you can pass or redouble in adition of the 1d+ bids you normally have. We have special agreements for the "extra" bids in case they double 1c or bid 1d: 1c (x) pass = 0-5 1c (x) xx = 6-8 with 5+ clubs 1c (x) 1d = 6-8 Others = system-on 1c(1d) pass = 0-5 1c(1d) x = 6-8 Others = system-on 1d, 1h, and 1s overcalls are the normal overcalls we get, so we have an agreement to play "system on" after an interference of 1d,1h,1s. We don't want to give up the relay structure after a "normal" overcall. If they bid 1h we have no problem pass is like a 1d bid, double like a 1h bid, 1s=1s etc, system-on. If they bid 1s we are system-on but one-level-up, pass=1d, double=1h, 1n=1s etc. This has the interesting side effect that in our system 1c-1h shows 4+ spades so 1c(1s)x shows 4+ spades and can be left as a penalty double at the 1 level (last time it was 1100). c) Interference from 1NT to 2S They never bid 1NT over 1c because if 1c is strong why bid a natural 1N? and they don't have an agreement of what 1nt is otherwise. Just in case some pair bid a 15-17 NT over the strong club (will wonders never cease) we use double as 8+, 2x bids as weak hands with a biddable suit and 2NT as the special Game-Forcing hand that can't double 1NT (distributional two suiter or freakish hand) 2 level bids are seldom seen, mainly in hands with a 6+ suit and weak values. We play Rubensohl against 2x bids because we like to have an option to double a "funny" 2x bid for penalties. d) Interference 2N and up? Very rare, only with some good 7+ card suits, we use double for takeout and bid naturally after a 3x preempt. If they bid a conventional bid showing a two suiter we bid double as "1 or 2 penalty doubles, pd WAIT!" Cuebids and suits depend on the suits shown or not shown by overcaller. The funny story is that one day an opp overcalled 1c with 2NT alerted as (any two suiter) and pd doubled alerted as (From 1 to 4 penalty doubles) :-) they unfortunately got in a rotating doubling sequence and finished playing a bad contract doubled. My conclusion was that unless you know what you are doing or your opps don't have a prepared defense against overcalls you should be careful, they are in known territory and you are not and things can be very very bad for you. Last note: 99.99% of our opps don't use a prepared defense against our strong 1c opening. Maybe I should post this in the systems forum some pairs may want to know our "forma" treatment of overcalls after 1c.

Hi pb, First of all I'd like to point out that the answer to your question should be "it shouldn't matter" but it does, because regulations and some players have a very strange tendency to try to "ban" light bids specifically when they get a bad result after one, if the result was good they just comment how crazy you were to open that hand and smile.... I think that what an 11-15 range means very much depends on partnership agreements, in my 10-14 openings we open about 75% of the 10 counters and about 25% of 9 counters too. We also upvalue hands with less than 15 hcp to a 15+ opening bid and downgrade flat 4333 15 counters with queens and jacks to a 10-14 opening sometimes. So I think that if opening bids show n-m HCP the "normal" meaning is: We open all n+1 hcp hands without exceptions. We open a majority of n hcp hands (about 75%) We also open some n-1 hcp hands (about 25%) I'd like feedback and opinions on this please. I take this as normal and expect disclosure from a pair that by agreement follows an unusual style like 11-15 openings where some 12 hcp hands are passed. This should be disclosed since after counting 10 hcp in a hand that passed with 11-15 openings I'm sure to finesse the other hand for any missing or play to drop it if I know it's offside. Parnership style is an implcit agreement and should be disclosed.... What I don't like is that some pairs write 10-15 in their card just to be "allowed" to open with 10 sometimes and they normally pass with 11 or even 12! That's missleading, I understand they do that just because they have been contested by someone after opening a ten counter but that's not the way to go in my opinion.

No interference? Will wonders never cease? :-) Let's try a German-Moscito auction, we would have bid: 1c (15+ any) 1s (4+h) 1n (relay) 2c (diammonds) 2d (relay) 2s (equal length) 2n (relay) 3s (0-5-5-3 exactly) 4c (relay) 4d (2 controls) 4h (where?) 4s (nothing in hearts) 4n (go on) 5d (dK, cK, no hQ) 5h (more!) 6c (dQ, cQ no hJ) 7c (thanks) pass Once you know responder has 0-5-5-3 a club game, slam or grand is vry likely, with 2 honors opener asks willing to play 5c if they are in the wrong place. An important point is that opener must open 1c and not 1s because he has just a few losers and because it is important for him to be the one asking since even playing moscito the auction would get too high to descibre a 6-0-0-7 hand. When a freakish hand can take control in a relay auction the pair playing a relay system has an incredible advantage over those playing standard methods where you have to make really wild bids and even then it would be hard to read the exact picture of your hand.

1) You have the following hand: Qxxxx, xx, AQxxx, x LHO opens a preemptive 4c, pd bids 4s and RHO bids 5c, your bid ? 4c 4s 5c ? 2) Now you have AT98xx, Jxx, xx, Ax Pd opens 1h, RHO bids 2c, you bid 2s, LHO jumps to 5c and pd bids 5d, pass by RHO, your bid? 1h 2c 2s 5c 5d p ? 3) Right or wrong you "decide" to open a 12-14 NT on Qx-Qxxx,Kx,AQxxx pd bids 2c stayman, you answer 2h, now pd bids 4NT "cuantitative" (denies 4h), do you accept or not? What do you bid? (no particular agreements). How do you like the 1NT opening? 1nt p 2c p 2h p 2h p ? 4) Finally a hand that is not a question, something to refresh your tired brain after 3 problems: xx AJxx KQxx Qxx Qxxx xxx xxx xxxx JT9x xx xx KT98 AKJx KQ Axx AJ32 You play 6NT from the south hand on a low heart lead. You have 4h, 2s, 3d and 2c for a total of 11, either minor suit 3-3 or the spade finesse can ensure the 12th trick. You take the h lead and play a club to the Q, east takes the K and returns a heart, you win the heart continuation and cash the 2 good clubs discovering east hast 4 clubs, now you try to cash the diammonds discovering west had 4. Both minor suits were wrong, do you need the spade finesse? Nah! :-) An automatic double squeeze :-)

No, as I said I play 2d to be ANY GF hand, opener is expected to bid 2M with 3 card support, 2OM with 4 cards or 3m with 5 cards (3om with 2344) 2NT with 4333 (4m). Then it should be easy to coninue naturally. Yes I said that :-)

Hi, I play a treatment that can be very good for your 11-14 NT since it's specially designed for 3hcp-wide NTs. After 1c-1d;1NT we play our NT structure as a normal 1NT opening but now in 15-17 range. After 1m-1M; 1NT I play a double checkback with a twist 2c: Any invitational hand or signoff in 2d, opener must bid 2d and now responder passes or bids naturally with an invitational hand. If responder bids 2NT it's a "solid" invitation (about 12-13) HCP and we expect pd to go to 3NT with a good 12hcp hand or any 13-14 hand. 2d: Game forcing (any) opener rebids as in nmf 2M: Signoff 2om: Less than invitational values 5-4 hand 2NT: Light invitation (11-12) HCP, opener should bid game only with good 13 hcp or 14hcp. 3m: Weak signoff 3om: Weak signoff Hope this helps. Luis

After being accused of satanism for playing moscito I played "colonial" Roth-Stonish Acol in a tourney some months ago with my father, we won the tourney for a huge margin, the reason being unfamiliarity of "modern" players with our Colonial methods :-) Example 1: Axx xx xxx QJxxx pd opens 1d they overcall 1nt I doubled since we only open with 13+ :-) +300 for us. Everybody was in +50 or +100 Example 2: KJTx AKx AJTx Qx They open a weak 2s, double (penalty1!) + 1100 for us Example 3: Pd opens an Acol 2d Axx Qxxx xxx Axx 6d! making 6, the field playing a "curious" 3NT pds hand: x, AKx, AKQxxx, xxx Of course we were lucky on the 3 examples but it was a lot of fun. You can't imagine the face of the 2s opener when my double was alerted as "penalties" :-) or the amazing number of questions they asked after the 6d bid :-) At the end I asked: Are you thinking about banning colonial acol now?

I'll be playing "German-Moscito" in the match. It's based on the German Moscito version by Rene Steiner with some modifications we added. (We replaced the asking bids system with a simplified yet more powerful denial cuebids approach). This version has the advantage that we managed to get it accepted under ACBL mid-chart regulations so we can play it in most events we don't need yet another system and we can practice it a lot. Opening bids: 1c: 15+ any (Rubensohl on if they bid 2x) 1d: 10-14 no 4M (Rubensohl if they bid 2x) 1h: 10-14 4+h denies 4s 1s: 10-14 4+s unbalanced without 4h 1n: 10-14 balanced with 4/5 spades 2c: 10-14 5/4 or better in the majors 2d: 10-14 three suited with 4+ clubs 2h: Weak 2 in hearts or 10-14 three suited with short clubs 2s: Weak 2 in spades Igust style 2n: 8-11 5/4 or better in the minors Relays are used over any non-1c opening to show INV+ hands, INV hands relay 1 time and then bid naturally, GF+ hands relay all the way until the exact distribution is known. Then we ask for controls and use denial cuebids. The relay structure is symetric and easy to memorize, it's based in very simpe rules that can be momorized easily. It's not optimal, we have to rely on judgment sometimes and we do have problems in some sequences too but we have minimized the chances of a bidding accident with very strict rules including competition and we do have some advantage over natual bidders on some hands. One example from a recent tourney: Dealer: AKJxx, xx, AJxxx, x Pd: Qxx, Ax, KQxx, Axxx 1s (10-14 unbal 4+s) 1n (relay INV+) 2c (diammonds) 2h (relay GF) 2s (same length) 2n (relay) 3c (short clubs) 3d (relay) 3h (5-2-5-1) 3s (controls?) 4h (5 A=2, K=1) 4s (relay) 4n (AK of sp or nothing) 7d (pd has AKxxx, xx, Axxxx, x so 13 tricks) The field played 4 spades :-) one pair managed to play 6 spades making.

Never use the word "never" in bridge bidding. I play 5x bids as preempts and I strongly hope my pd uses 5x as preempts. I'd open 5x with a 9 card suit on a weak hand or an 8 card suit and favorable vulnerability then is up to them to bid the hand.

I played this against weak NT for some time: Dbl: Balanced 13+ or one suited with 16+ 2c: Transfer to d's 12-15 or Hearts and another suit 12-15 or d+other 16+ 2d: Transfer to h's 12-15 or two suited with h 16+ 2h: Transfer to s's 12-15 or two suited with s 16+ 2s: Spades and another suit 12-15 2n: Freakish distributional hand 3x: Preempts

1) If 5 spades is not preemptive then I need a new pd. My last 5 spades opening was KQJxxxxxx, -, x, xx but I agree if can be done with 8 spades when NV vrs Vul. Pass and hope he can make it 2) 7d what else can 5nt be? If 1 is not preemptive and 2 is not asking for 2 diammond honors for 7 then I need a new pd I don't mind if pd missbids I just don't like missbids at the 5 level.

Lol I was playing the hand from the other side with an out of turn lead :-)

This is a nightmare! I assume the club is a singleton.... I can't! find a way to win 6h if East has Kxx of clubs and Kxx of hearts :-( I win if east has Kx of hearts or if he has Kxxx of hearts oh my god,I'm going to misguess this one.... Take the club and play the cA

I use 1h (dbl) 1s = natural with 5+ spades, forcing 1n = xfer to 2c 2c = xfer to 2d 2d = Sound raise with 3h (8-10) 2h = Weak raise with 4h 2n = 9+ with 4h 3d = 5-8 with 4 hearts 3h = 0-4 with 4 hearts 1s (dbl) 1n = xfer to 2c 2c = xfer to 2d 2d = xfer to 2h 2h = Sound raise with 3s (8-10) 2s = Weak raise with 3s 2n = 9+ with 4s 3h = 5-8 with 4s 3s = 0-4 with 4s It's simple and easy to remember, everything is a transfer but raises.

Hi, very interesting points, I like playing weak NT too, but lately I've been thinking if this can be improved by opening a strong NT (15-17) when Vul vrs NV. The reasons are: a) Field protection: I don't want a preempt or a 1x lead directing bid and a jump by RHO crowding the bidding B) If I open red vrs white a weak NT a good pair holding the balance of strength will realize inmediately that they are in a favorable position and double averything there's a lot to win I'd like to know your opinions on this variation. The approach I like best is: 10-12 when white vrs red (come and get me) 15-17 when red vrs white 12-14 all red or all white Feedback? Luis

Ben, I've been having so much fun with this thread that I've been unfair with you, both your 5s bid and your 5nt bids are really good bids playing standard that should be discussed with your partnership. Your ideas are a very useful source of discussion for most players and my posts were just pushing you to explain further and further and find even better bids, well done! In fact, I'm going to ask my 2/1 pd about this hand and how do we approach the bidding to sync the system and I'm going to use your ideas I don't like Kantar RKCb but the meaning of your inverse Josephine 5NT is something that must be discussed in seriour parnerships as well as the "funny" 5s ultra-cuebid-please-getme-to-7d. You should keep posting such interesting ideas and you will get used to my particular humour, I'm a good guy I just like "fighting" the holly war between naturalists and scientists because it is fun and it makes both worlds of bidding improve to compete with each other. I do play 2/1 as well as Moscito and I've learned interesting treatments to discuss in this thread.

I think 5d is a mistake :-) The 4sp bid seems to deny a club control or he would have bid 4c instead of 4s. I'd pass 4s and probably make some comments about dummy :-)

Good point pb, the play is harder at matchpoints, but yes, I'd play it in the same way.... Since I have hearts and diammonds under control the number of undertricks should be the same than the number of undertricks of those playing "normally" no extra damage for being fancy.... If spades where blocked and my play just unblocks the suit then don't call me :-) It's unlikely....

Ben.... I didn't quote you it was another guy who posted that treatment of 5NT I was amazed not by your bids but by the different meanings of 5NT for the same hand.... Your bids were always consistent. Don't worry. And now I've said at least 4 times I'm doing this with humour, I must ask you if you are getting mad. Are you? I never meant to offend you :-) I'll also answer why 4h asks in diammonds because when denial cuebids are used the suits are scanned in length order, if two suits have the same length they are scanned in rank order. You can't play 4h that's true but you are not asking for controls excluding clubs in a hand where the contract is to be played in hearts and can be in jeopardy at the 5 level, are you? All systems have pros and cons, I'll admit forever that Moscito has some problems in many hands and that it's inferior than natural in competitive auctions. But it is better for slams and grand slams, no matter how many gadgets and gizmos you introduce, I think that you have reached a level of artificiallity so high that your "natural" auctions are no longer natural. After all you used Kantar RKCB, Criss cross, double checkback, Inverse Josephine and Batman & Robin in the same hand.... :-)

Hi John, With a Qx opp xx of spades we know we are going down if they switch to spades when in with the cA, unless a miracle occurs and the suit blocks so my rational is that I must do something to make them believe that a spade switch won't work. One option is to duck the diammond, concealing the dQ and sacrificing a trick in diammonds; when in with the cA they may just continue diammonds and it will be too late. This line has some merits but any defender can count 5 clubs, 2 diammonds and maybe 2 hearts for 9 tricks so they will play spades as the only way to defeat the contract, lefty is specially dangerous since without the hK he knows declarer has either hA-hK or hA-hQ and the finesse works for 9 tricks. That's why I think while interesting that line would fail. Playing a spade to the queen is a common deceptive play that I have succesfully executed sometimes, is hard for a defender to realize you are starting your weakest suit, they will probably switch to hearts and then you knock down the cA and if they play another heart you win and claim... You can win the hand or go down but you have a story....

You seem to have misunderstood my points, I'm not saying Moscito is perfect I never said that, I believe that is superior for slam bidding than natural methods. There're a zillion hands where it can fail, they are not hard to construct and I won't try to "invent" a solution. What I've been tryng to say and you refuse to accept it is that a natural system is worst than a relay system (not only moscito) if you have to find a difficult slam or grand slam. Do you see the point? I can post "n" hands and you will always provide us an incredible "natural" auction to the best contract, that's what makes me laugh, it is impossible! Instead of "inventing" the right convention each time you should just accept that the hand is difficult to bid and would normally end up in 6x. On the other hand you can post as many hands as you want and if moscito fails I will just admit it fails. It's really easy to construct hands where moscito has problems, after knowing pd distribution and number of controls we use denial cuebids or exclusion blackwood, we don't have other tools. I Since you presented the hands as a challenge let's see them: Responder always has: AKQxx, Qx, AJxxxx, - 1) S J2 H J52 D QT76 C AKQJ 1d 1h ® 2s (c=d) 2n ® 3c (2-3-4-4 and 13-14) 4c (controls excluding clubs) 4d (2 or less) 4h (asking) 4s (no dK or A) 5d 5d is not as good as 4s or 4nt but well it is the price we pay for trying to find the slam if he has the dK. J2 K52 KQ76 KQJ3 Aha 15+ this is an 1c opening :-) 1c 1h (spades) 1s 2c (diammonds) 2d 2h (d>s) 2s 2n (short clubs) 3c 3n (6-2-5-0) 4c 4n (5 controls) 5c 5d (AK of spades) 6d 3) Jx Axx Kxxx KQJX 1d 1h ® 2s (c=d) 2n ® 3c (2-3-4-4 and 13-14) 4c (controls excluding clubs) 4h (3 controls) 6d (what's the problem?) 4) Jx AKx xxxx KQJx 1d 1h ® 2s (c=d) 2n ® 3c (2-3-4-4 and 13-14) 4c (controls excluding clubs) 4h (3 controls) 6d (what's the problem?) These particular 4 examples were easy, as well as the original hand. But there're hands where the system is not enough to determine the best contract and you have to judge what to play, I admit it. But even then it's better than natural bidding for slams and Oh sorprise! after learning your amazing conventions I can conclude that it is easier to learn and remember. Just describe your shape, your controls and where they are, then pd bids the best contract he can find. I'm sure it is easier than Kantar RKCB, Inverse Josephine, Criss Cross, Batman & robin , and your zillion gadgets.

Sorry If I misshandled the "quote" function I'm not very familiar with the syntax :-) Never wanted to put words in your mouth Ben :-) I'm rolling on the floor laughing, this has been extremely fun.