keylime

I definitely feel for you here. Shake it off and realize it's not your fault. I would play straight Blackwood until pard prompts you otherwise. I do this in indys and it is amazing how many think RKCB is part of SAYC. For the record, I rarely use 4NT anymore for ace-asking - I use other tools to prevent this major oops from happening.

I originally voted for 3♠, but I'm changing my mind and going for double - it caters to more situations alluded to, and additionally, if pard's on some hearts they may convert it because they may have no other rebid available. My double is somewhat cooperative because it's at the 3 level at equal colors. Additionally, you may not have game if pard's on a weak NT hand of 12-14 points lacking some fillers (you're staring at AS, KH, KD - what DID pard open on over there?). Lastly, I'm at IMPs - and I think my best outcomes are going for the sure plus of +300 likely versus an unknown +420 or worse off -100/-150 (and higher). So, change me to the double camp.

South should not double but bid. In canape it's a heart followed by clubs so I get the strain into focus - in standardized Precision I'd open 2♣ followed by a lotta hearts. I can bid 4NT for another place to play if needed.

My worry is if the same hand holds 4 trumps and 4 diamonds to 2 honors. I don't think you can make it then conceptually unless LHO happens to be 6-1-4-2 (I doubt strongly they are 6-5; a Michaels overcall comes then). Then it should be a straight double squeeze. If LHO is on 4 card side suit of clubs. I think on similar lines you get into a squeeze position by keeping the spade menace and playing trumps to force them to keep more cards. I'm playing for 12 tricks only. Even with the preempt playing 6NT loses out on this construction enough to warrant not considering it - you likely are not getting a spade lead. I am going to assume that the J is from shortness. I strongly suspect they wouldn't lead it from JTx or JTxx - not a logical lead in this context unless LHO is exactly 6-2-2-3 and didn't want to blow the lead. So, I go for a Vienna coup like Josh does. It's the simplest way to get to 12 tricks, and lends itself for more 4-1 trump splits and side suit 4-2's.

Agreed with the posters that in a forcing club setup, this is almost bread-and-butter. In Ultra it's 1C-2D-3D-3S (strong, balanced 8-10, asking, 3 ctrls). Now after denial cuebidding you locate the lacking Ace of spades, and still have to determine if 5D is the limit. The Jack of spades, is a massive card. In a natural based setup, unless you had a way to show heart denial, this hand is hard; maybe something like: 1D - 1H 2NT* (lacking 3 hearts, six diamonds or more, good hand) - 3C* (sets g/f) 3S - 3NT ....and now what? :)

For me 2♠ is asking for which suit they'd accept a try in. 3♣ would deny a game try in spades, but accept one in clubs.

I like hopping it too Phil - declarer obviously is trying for the maximum. Additionally, I don't think declarer is on K-x-x either - doesn't make sense to just willingly play that. Additionally, you need to see if the spade lead was a singleton or doubleton (I'm expecting a bump with any three card or honor-x in spades with as light as 4-5 hcp in this situation). And, we don't expect pard to have much of anything with what the auction has shown us; time to limit losses. After cashing another spade, it's the exit at trick five that I'd have to consider.

I used to play a nuts defense to this where all doubles were cardshowing showing that suit bid, regardless of nature of the call. These days, Multi defense.

Dewey decimal system - there is something that needs to die a quick and painful death. Ever been to the late 790's - they are going out to 3-4 decimal places!

Count me in too. See many positive benefits that can come from this.

Many players play 1M-1NT-2NT as forcing around here locally, to cater to this freakish distribution.

Sesame Street is adult-only? What the hell - did Dave Chappelle imposed his skit onto the episode? I can hear it now..."...where's my money....you've been late I've been counting....one, two, two smacks ack ack ack...." or maybe this gem..."hello bbbiiirrrddddd, I need some smmacckkk bbbiirrrdddd...."

Phil, Question for you. How would one then make a slam try in the club suit versus the spade suit? Surely it isn't 6ARKCB in this auction when they may be bidding 5♥ to further things. Additionally, I'd assume that we're using some form of DOPI/DEPO when they come in, but would that have been discussed prior? What would 5NT or 5♥ be in this instance? I agree with the principle that diamonds are not in the picture here; otherwise I'm doubling if it's our hand. I can't tho see since 4♠ hit the table, that it's RKC in a competitive auction. Then again, in highly competitive auctions ace-asking is somewhat rare versus cuebidding and other defined calls.

Somewhat close, but I raise. I have length in hearts and the diamond Q is valuable.

I like 4♠, because it infers a decent raise to 5♣. I'd take 4NT as not RKCB - I would take it as a "pard, I'm pretty good here, how good are you? I'm interested in higher things.". Our hand is good in context: 1. We own three hearts, which is a good thing. Pard's likely void. 2. We have first round control of the unbid suit, diamonds. 3. Honor-third for pard in his overcall and then he bids 4NT? Excellent. 4. Lastly, spades are not too bad. I take the plunge at 6♣.

I'm lovin' the low diamond lead.

The reason is, like 2 suited overcalls, you remove the ambiguous nature of the call itself. Additionally, most competitive auctions land in a major, so why wouldn't you strive vigorously to that? One of the minuses of DONT style overcalls are, since you only know one suit, the other suit gets buried when it comes back to you. Lionel being major centric also has this issue - but, since it's based on majors, you can gear your system to locate the minor for cheap sacrifices - you don't for example have to compromise your double, and it reduces you total partnership load to remember and practice (Brozel is even better as this - you know what's going on, and can get on with it). With DONT, there's plenty of ambiguity and that adds to the load that p'ships need to practice. Analogous to this are the Michaels major overcall of 2M over their 1M opening. You know what the major is, but you have no clue what the minor is. This doesn't help 4th seat bid if RHO makes a call and you have a little bit of length in that suit, but not enough to rule out that suit as being the other suit of pard's hand. I am of the view that it is easier to compete, when you know both the strain of contract, and what the nature of pard's hand is, without the guesswork. Even since migrating to specific 2 suiters, it has helped my competitive bidding.

I rebid 1♠, and not 1♥. I want to show my hand, and if pard finds a constructive call, I do have a follow-up coming. Owning 8 controls is an excellent find, and viewing it as a 19-21 NT isn't that far of a stretch. However, if pard is dead broke, LHO may be waiting to take a call now hearing that there isn't a G/F out there on his left. That, and I can still get into a heart partial - I own three of them, and it'll be right sided. The problem I have with bidding 1♥ first is, if pard has no response structure to show a 4-6 hcp hand with a suit regardless of owning a control or not, he/she is endplayed into bidding 1♠ on enough hand types to get into the wrong partial, including hearts.

I am not keen on a fit jump either, because if the opps have diamonds with their spades, this auction's going to get quickly moving. However, I hate a puny 2M/4M raise more, and it's a bad hand to try 2NT as a limit raise or better. So, I fit jump and hope for the best.

This hand is one of the prime reasons why I prefer specific suit defenses that are major centric in their early bidding engines (for the record, Lionel is what I prefer).

Matter of fact, I'm going to offer Jan and Chip a bottle of northern Virginia's best white or red wine (for the record, I am torn between Lake Anna Winery and Horton's Vineyard - both are excellent) as a thank you gift.

Well, sounds like there was the give-and-take that was needed for a breakthrough. Let's hope that this can be buried and not have any ill will as an aftermath. Additionally, we should laud Jan Martel for her leadership and sensible approach to this very contentious issue.

I like 3♣ because it's a down the middle bid. It keeps all strains open.

If I didn't know any better I'd swear the 6♥ bidder was thinking 4♣ was NAMYATS.

I think the Water Cooler functions the way it's supposed to, and to discard it would reduce the color and vibrancy that the BBO community exude. Let me offer one example. If you did a search on posts you'll quickly realize that Richard (hrothgar) and I are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum. Thusly there's times where we've been sharp and pointed towards one another, but I firmly believe that beneath the passionate arguments there is a (hopefully) mutual respect that even tho there is disagreement, that the disposition of our views have only served to make us look at our belief structures. It is that self-examination that better us as humans, without our dreaded humanity interfering with the process. At times I do think that there are some unneeded barbs tossed at people, but it is not to the extend where it would be deemed "par for the course".