bilalz

[hv=pc=n&e=sqj642haj62d9ca43&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1s2h3s4h4s5h5sppp]133|200[/hv] Pairs at the local club, MPs, 3S raise is natural (i.e. no difference after interference). The system we play is 4 card, 12+hcps openings (Nordic standard). Opps are vulnerable. I am sitting east. 5S went one down. P said that I can not bid 4S holding all those hcps in hearts. I think the jack of hearts is the only bad hcp I have and I think that 4H could possibly be passed out and even doubled might not be a good score. And from what I have gathered so far, the hand that bids the invitational hand should then not bid 5S and let the opener decide. Questions: 1. Is the 4S an overbid (singleton and an extra trump as we play 4 card majors, and obvious shortness from P in hearts are plus points, 5 hcps in opps suit is the negative point)? 2. Is the 5S bid usual/allowed?

The reason I asked was because I made the 3s bid holding QTxx xx AJxxx Qx. (If you think I overbid, please tell me and why, I guess Qx in clubs is not great, but my question remains any way and deals with what P should do when the 3S comes around to him). Partner passed and we was the only one to find the pass. All other tables went one down in 4S. He is a very good player and told me that he did not have a good hand and had no aces. Despite the top score, I felt a bit uneasy and thought I should share this here so I can get a general guideline. Based on the responses, there is a lack of consensus. I would have bid 4S myself, probably without thinking too much. If I did take the time to pause and assess I dont know what I would have done but given the lack of interest from opps, I might have bid 4S even then. Would I be very wrong is what I guess I wanted to know. He is a lot more experienced than me so I took his word for it but to me the lack of aces in that hand would not have occurred as a reason. Maybe someone can give a short explanation in general about Aces when bidding (I am guessing they dont matter so much when bidding nt). [Edit, Ace of diamond not E, Swedish cards eh..]

sorry, added the missing info, the raise shows 10+ hcps and spade support.

reasons for the choice please. MP scoring (regular pairs comp at the local club), you are Vul vs non-Vul Opps. Playing sayc, you sit in second seat holding KJ743 JT7 KQ6 KJ, bidding goes pass 1S pass 3S pass ? Do you bid 4s or no? or even 3nt?

Thanks all, since I am new to opening nt with 5 card major, I was just unsure if the experts consider ♥AJTxx as something other than NT, and if the 4-3 spade fit is considered bad for nt. Otherwise, from what I know the hand was an NT opener (not too many aces, no empty/vulnerable suit...). Good to know that all was ok.

I would bid 3h if I was thinking that 4h would be a better place to play, even with 3 card support from p (AJ10xx should be almost same opposite two or 3 cards), which took me back to my original choice of opening 1nt vs 1h. Has anything changed much till I get the 2nt bid from p, denying 4 hearts? Would you guys prefer 4h with this hand and 3 card support from the partner? If yes, why?

http://tinyurl.com/ybpxukev (Not sure how to post the hand directly) It was with a random partner on bbo, so his 2c and subsequent 2nt showed 4 spades and 8 to 9 points. Regardless of the result (3 down) and the fact that with my regular p I play puppet stayman which was no use anyhow, this hand got me thinking if it was the correct choice to open 1nt or 1h. And any advice in general about opening 1M or 1nt is appreciated. On a sidenote, should I pass the 2nt invite?

Fully agreed. My other p would take the auction to 3nt or 2s (if there is slam interest). My hand has no advantage being the nt declarer from any of the 4 suits, not just spades. While there is more space to show 5 hearts from p if he is stronger, don't forget that the auction could well stop at 1 nt. And I did play the room. A spade lead against a 1nt contract is automatic and p could even have many positional stoppers/tricks if he is declarer.

Thanks again. I do not think my partner's problem was so much that I raised with 3 cards. This he expects from time to time as long as I have a good explanation, but he did want me to then downgrade my hand even further on the basis of that 3-card raise and deny controls. Something that I really did think about during the bidding and might have done some other day, but his club control meant that all 12 of my Hcps were good.

I have to say that I am surprised by the consensus that my 4D and 5D bids are justifiable. As I am new to this, I was not sure if the 5D promised club control as well instead of denying it. Actually the club denial was the very reason I did not pull to 5H as partner has the space to do that himself with this information. So I will turn to the other problem. Would be interesting to know how many of you would 'never' bid 2H in that spot. (I understand the point about opening 1D, would you bid 1nt even if you opened 1D, as the post above suggested?)

Thank you for the answers so far and I hope I get some more comments too. We play Nordic standard and bid the lowest 4 card suit. Helps us find slams in minors at times and adds some other gadgets to our bidding. When I play sayc I do as you pointed out. Have not given so much thought to adopting that in the Nordic standard, might be that there is no drawback. In my partner's defense, this was at our local club where we have a good chance to score an extra trick or two (which he duly did) and he is a very good player. But he commented to me afterwards that my two control bids show that I know nothing about bridge. Maybe a heat in the moment thing and one that I certainly did not mind. And I accept that I did commit the sin of supporting with 3 cards (but as pointed out, an extra heart for a diamond makes it not so different, plus I had the jack to handle some bad breaks). My other regular partner routinely checks for 3nt game when in such auctions when he holds good cards in the unbid (mostly major) suit, to give me a chance to show if I have sinned. Since it costs nothing and we do not play it as asking for controls. Obviously the ten and 9 of spades are crucial to any nt contract and my 1nt bid almost certainly puts me on lead and I have telegraphed the lead for opps. Maybe I was overthinking it but for me a heart contract was always safer. For me the 4s bid promises a hand that is safe in 5H, when I visualized a hand like that I could not help but bid 5D. I think the hand is a bit more complicated from my side than my Partner assumes. After all 5H goes down on many many opening hands with the 4-4 fit!

p[hv=pc=n&s=saj95hak95dt7cat4&w=sk762h842dq54ck87&n=s43hqj7dak92cq632&e=sqt8ht63dj863cj95&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=1cp1hp2hp4cp4dp4sp5dp6hppp]399|300[/hv] I was sitting North. Went down one after good play by my p. Catalog of mistakes and optimisms from me I guess. Chose to support with 3 cards, my two honors and the poor spades as the excuse. In my defense I am new to the art of controls and was not sure if my 5♦ was slam forcing. I figured P would stop in 5♥ if he does not have the other control in clubs and there is a high chance that our losers in spades are only one due to my doubleton. So please let me have it. Where should I have stopped? Pulled to 4♥ after 4♣. Is my hand not worth the diamond control? If I pull to 5♥ after 4♠, does partner not complain that slam was missed because he was worried about a second diamond loser? He has no space to ask for queen of trumps either so I have to take that into account myself. Is partner blameless? I did limit my hand to a maximum of 14 HCPs and my 12 are not the worst. Would a queen of spade really make a difference to my hand? Partner could make slam if he has King of spade instead of jack. Denying him diamond control would put him in 4nt, followed by 5♦ from me and maybe a queen ask from him or an expectation to pull his 5h to slam with the queen. Thanks for your input.

Take a knee!

Thanks, will propose this to some of the Lebensohl naysayers. On a sidenote: surely I am not the only one who thinks that rightsiding is particularly important in this exact situation, where a lead through the nt opener can turn ugly... could easily be the difference between 2M making or going down and an IMP swing if other overcallers are not as adventurous as our opps (ironically the contract that is not being rightsided even in Rubensohl).

Thanks for the nice reply and for the arguments. I played Lebensohl with one of my partners at the local club sometimes, for example today. But as mentioned by others, not everyone likes to play what is a rather lengthy convention ( http://www.bridgebum.com/lebensohl_after_1nt.php ). You have listed the pros: penalty double and takeout double available. cons: not right siding the contract and often wrong siding the lead, 2nt natural invite unavailable, a bit of a bother to learn the convention (not a problem for me personally). Overall Lebensohl is probably superior but stolen bids is not as bad as everyone thinks, since the 1nt opening is a pretty descriptive bid in itself, some inference and partnership experience can make the right siding worthwhile, and stayman 3c can find the 4 card fits too. We can cue bid to find stoppers, and if the level three invite is not available, we can sign off or bid game based on a sense of opponents, and some slight inferences, etc. Double at level two is rare and often does not pay as handsomely as we expect, a lot of it again having to do with the nature of the 1nt opening being pretty descriptive helping the declarer a lot. I guess I would play Lebensohl with the partners that are willing to play it but I would not trash the stolen bids system either if someone insists on keeping it simple. As long as they have a reasonable argument for a guesswork bid that went wrong :) I was good to get schooled directly for the first time, after years of just reading you guys and learning from it. Cheers

We play stolen bids: double at the second level taken as a transfer to the next suit and use sort of puppet stayman with 3c to find a 4-4 major fit (with required values ofc, and we do not open nt with 5 card majors so that helps). I'm not saying the system is perfect and works for all hands, but what does? Over time in an established partnership, there are not many deals that we can't cater to. Maybe you or the others who sometimes write up pieces on tricky subjects (Badger, Kaitlyn, etc.) can lay out a good system and we can discuss the pros and cons. Cheers