wclucas42

I do play 1NT - 2♣ as regular Stayman... I don't always bid 4♦ with a 4 card major I may just jump to 3NT, It depends on my major suit holdings. But at Match points I am told the 420 vs 400 can make a difference so... Who am I to argue.

This contradicts something I was previously told, but I like this much better, so I am just going to go with the confirmation bias here. I never liked playing lebensohl against Cappelletti because of the artificial 2 ♣ overcall. Thanks

This seems like a nice and extremely more digestible form of this: http://web2.acbl.org...t/alertpamp.htm thanks for the summation, I read that link three times and I'm still not sure I get all of it, but that's why I posted here. A quick question on Post Alerts though. Should post alerts be made before or after the opener has selected their card to lead? So if the opening leader has questions after the auction they are to be asked prior to the selection of the card. Their partner is than offered a chance to ask questions and the typical "No Questions" triggers the lead to be placed face up and the dummy to drop. If a post alert is required am I to volunteer the information prior to picking up the bidding cards? Also what if there was more than one bid that would require an alert? i.e. 1♥ - (Pass) - 4♦ (1) - (Pass) 4NT(2) - (Pass) - 5♣ (3) - Pass 5♦ (4) - (Pass) - 6♥ (5) (1) Splinter (2) RKC1430 (3) 1 or 4 Key Cards (4) Asks for ♥Q (5) (Shows ♥Q Here there is a splinter, RKCB and the trump queen ask, how would you alert this after the auction? Speaking of splinters if the auction goes 1♥ - (Pass) - 3♠ - (Pass) showing a splinter bid. this is below 3 NT so should it be alerted immediately? However, if the auction goes 1♥ - Pass - 4♦ - Pass does this then get a Post Alert? Geez, I hope it denies a stopper when playing slow shows stopper or fast denies (which I thought was "standard.") If not I have been playing it wrong, which is completely possible... 1NT - (2♥) - 3♥(1) - (Pass) (1) Stayman showing four spades and no heart stopper... 1NT - (2♥]) - 2NT (1) - (Pass) 3♣ (2) - (Pass) - 3♥ (3) - (Pass) 3NT (4) - All Pass (1) lebensohl 2NT (2) lebensohl puppet response (3) Stayman showing 4 spades (4) Denies 4 spades Thanks again for the great response...

Looks like the local club's Wed. night game is coming back to life. I have been able to attend around a half dozen times. The first few was just getting oriented and people were very accommodating through the learning curve. One area where I am still having problems is with the Alerts and Announcements. I haven't ever really had to worry about them in the past, and it is my goal to quickly get a lot better at the table... Looking through the card I give to prospective partners I compiled a list of alterable conventions to use as a cheat sheet for the back of my pocket. Most of them are relatively straight forward, but some I am kind of left scratching my head... I would like to find a sort of heuristic to help me identify when I need to speak up, but if it is just a memorization thing, so be it. I'll just need to know when. For instance playing inverted minors is easy, anytime a minor suit is raised at the 2 or three level say alert, but playing lebensohl (fast denies) after 1NT interference which calls need to be alerted? I would assume the auction 1 NT, (2♣), 2NT, (Pass) (3♣)... would require an alert on the 2NT bid but does the 3♣ puppet response get one too? Also, still playing lebensohl the auction goes 1NT - (2♣) - 2♥ - (Pass). In this auction the 2♥ is natural and non forcing... Or this auction which is natural and game forcing 1NT - (2♣) - 3♦ - (Pass) or the Stayman request denying stopper 1NT - (2♣) - 3♣ - (Pass) Beyond lebonsohl some other conventions where I am not sure would include... Cappelletti: I would assume the 2♣ and 2 ♦ would be alerertable, but would 2♥, 2♠ or 2NT? Bergen Raises: I would assume most sequences in this auction would be alertable, but how many alerts would be necessary in these auctions 1♥ - (Pass) - 1NT (1) - (Pass) 2♣ - (Pass) - 3♥ (2) (1) Forcing (2) Limit Raise+ w/ 3 card support When pd bids 1 NT I just announce it's forcing because I don't know the 3♥ is coming yet, but when it hits the table, do I need to alert? If not playing Bergen I wouldn't alert this limit raise sequence 1♥ - Pass - 3♥ - (Pass), but does the intervening 1 NT make the 3♥ alertable? or (actual auction) 1♠ - (Pass) - 3♥ (1) - (Pass) 3♠ (2) - (Pass) - 4♦ (3) - (Pass) 4NT (4) - (Pass) - 5♠ (5) - (Pass) 6♥ - All Pass (1) supports ♥with unspecified singleton or void (2) Asks for short suit (3) Short suit (4) RKCB 1430 ask in ♥ (5) RKCB 1430 response 2 Keycards w/ ♥Q Puppet Stayman used outside of a 2NT opening. 1NT - (Pass) - 3clubs (1) - (Pass) 3♦ (2) - (Pass) - 3♠ (3) - (Pass) 4♥ (4) - All Pass (1) Puppet Stayman Ask (Game Force) (2) No 5 card major, unspecified 4 card major (3) 4♥ game invite in hearts (4) Accept Heart invite 4♥ Finally, playing Jacoby 2NT the auction goes 1♥ - (Pass) - 2NT (1) - (Pass) 3♠ (2) - (X (3)) - 4♦ (4) - (Pass) 4NT (5) - (Pass) - 5♥ (6) - All Pass (1) Jacoby 2 NT 4 hearts, opening hand strength (2) Splinter in spades (3) Lead directing (4) 1st round control in ♦, no first round control in ♣ (5) 1st round control in ♥, no first round control in ♠ (6) Retreat to trump missing too many controls (♣ and ♠) Some of these auctions seem like the majority of the bids would require an alert but I don't need a comprehensive answer on which bids in each auction require an alert. Rather they are demonstrative of the types of auctions where I find myself uncertain if I should alert or not. Not alerting bids means they might be taken out of context, but over alerting seems like it could be even more confusing. I don't have enough time before or after the games to ask these types of questions but would prefer to avoid future calls for the director. So I'll take any advice on how to handle these more complicated auctions... Also when typing out auctions is there a way to denote the bid is alertable without a diagram I have seen stuff like 1♥ - (Pass) - 3!♥ but wasn't sure the exclamation mark denoted an alert... If it isn't an alert how is it read?

Thanks for the comments everyone... As always a fair amount to think through. Hope everyone enjoys their year end holidays and festivities...

I thought my 3 NT was an overbid, like I said I didn't see my hand delivering what I thought it promised.

We'll that's pretty much how I understand it. Although I thought it was all balanced shapes, and implicitly promises stoppers... I felt better about 4 hearts than 3 NT. This really gets to the crux though... Is the 3NT bid on shape alone or am I promising more? Thanks,

Oops, apologies, I seemed to have trampled on the parenthesis somewhere along the line. As it read I completely agree. with the "not fast arrival" comment.

I left out from the original poll question that it was known ahead of time that a jump to 3NT would be taken as part of the Bergen treatment... I still didn't like it though for your line of reasoning, and as for the result there was 5 hearts against us and 3NT went down where it was played. That evidence though is ad-hoc, hence the question.

It was an IRL game (for a change) and my partner was a much more experienced player than I am, not that that is hard. We talked through Bergen raises to make sure we were on the same page including 3NT, nebulous splinters and how to ask. My 2 ♣ was a generic game force, which we didn't discuss. 2 ♦ for me shows 5 as well, and my 2 clubs was bid out of habit, so that's on me. I agree the jump in spades isn't strictly fast arrival by definition, hence the parenthesis. My logic was the 2 ♦ new suit still left his hand unlimited and suggest we had side fit. A jump to 4 ♠ wouldn't allow for cue bidding at the 4 level. Since we were already in a game forcing auction consuming unnecessary space denotes weaker GF hands. He didn't seem to take any issue with the jump raise at the time... Also every partner is a pick up partner it seems, so I just stick to my card and any agreements we make before the game. I'd rather discuss my system's pros and cons rather than those of a safety bid.

So I found myself responding to this hand with a pick up partner. With our 5 minute discussion before the evening started he requested we play Bergen Raises. We agreed it should include use of intervening 1NT -3M on 10-12 point hands w/ 3 card support, 3NT as a major raise and nebulous splinters and how to ask, all very standard. Seeing no problem with that we started playing. This hand presented itself and it led to a bit of a discussion [hv=pc=n&s=sa76hj85dj972caqj&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp]133|200[/hv]

I did miss read kgrs 3C puppet bid initially and he was nice enough to provide the rest of the system notes for the bid... I agree its pretty fancy, more complicated than anything I would have come up with... It's actually those type of continuation schemes that I am most interested, because right now natural response don't seem to be sufficient. Thanks again for the comments and trying to steer me out of disaster, unfortunately, its probably not going to be the only time.

So it is, Thanks. I was confused by the reply at first, so I guess I misread it. I think we're on the same page for the most part. Stephen Tu's post might be a direct reply to post #19, makes total sense that way. :huh: I started with a 2 NT natural overcall showing 15 - 17 w/ stops. I admit, I want a better agreement sitting in North... I want to be able to transfer and pass just like in a normal 1 NT auction. Stayman would be nice too. A natural 2 NT overcall of a weak 2 should place no fewer than half the points in the deck. So I subtract my hand from 20ish and I can place RHO's points, sitting north I want to make sure I can land it in the right spot.

Ok, good, that is what I am currently doing, 2 different ranges were provided in the post: "...if you had a natural 2nt bid (~10-11 points or thereabouts with a heart stopper)..." "- you can't bid 2nt anymore with 15/16-18 balanced. What will you do instead?" and I couldn't tell if it was intentional or not. The two statements are far enough apart that I might have missed a subtlety which warranted the different ranges for the same bid. Thanks,

Of course it is only after I post I catch my mistake again... It was in my statement "From what I understand, in this use case lebonsohl is used after the takeout double of a weak 2 bid by the responder." it should read "From what I understand, in this use case lebonsohl is used after the takeout double of a weak 2 bid by the _advancer_." I can see how this mistake would lead people to think I meant 2x - DBL - 2NT is invoking lebensohl puppet response when the actual sequence would be more like 2X - DBL - (P) - 2NT. Mea culpa, sorry I didn't catch that sooner. I can see how that could cause confusion.Again, stop digging...

Wow, first let me say thanks for taking the time write such a thought out response. I think you helped me clarify my thoughts if nothing else. I don't think I am overly confused about the convention though, from my reply you quoted: "From what I understand, in this use case lebonsohl is used after the takeout double of a weak 2 bid by the responder. _I wasn't and am still not really certain it would work invoked for overcalls and advances_" the rest of the post is me talking through what it would mean to try and apply it and unfortunately you stopped quoting right where I started expressing my doubts. to fill in the rest of the quote: This I think sums up my concerns about using lebonsohl during overcalls and advances. I think this is a great rationale of why I didn't want to use a TOX in the original problem hand I posted, you said it better than I could. I currently play 2NT overcalls of weak 2s as showing a strong 1 NT (~15 - 17) opener with a stop. (See post #5 for my current scheme), your strength above is a fair bit less than mine, although three lines later you say "you can't bid 2nt anymore with 15/16-18 balanced." So are you suggesting ~10 - 11 w/ stops in opps suit or 15/16-18 w/o stops? I also think a 2 spades overcall gets passed regardless on this hand. a 2Nt overcall though would allow for advancer to pass, raise to 3NT or transfer, and I think the scheme in post #17 might be superior to the one I currently use (outlined in post #5 I completely agree with the artificial puppet 2 NT overcall being a problem... If you have time I would actually appreciate your comments on the schemes outlined in post #5 and post #17 of this thread. They each revolve around overcaller using a passable 2NT and continuations by advancer that help ensure overcaller becomes the declarer. Ultimately, I think I am in a hole here and should just stop digging.

The way I play it right now is the 2NT open shows a strong NT open on overcall. As I mentioned in another reply dealing with these preemptions has been on my mind lately. When I played at my first club game back in September, I was preempted a fair bit. I was only able to declare twice out of 27 boards, and while it was very helpful for my defensive game, I didn't get much declarer practice. Comparing scores it was obvious the other table either wasn't preempted or were able to work around it. I asked the other players how they dealt with the preempts, and that's where I first heard about 4 suit transfers, etc. I looked at using lebonsohl as well because I was starting at the two level anyway, but I was just learning the convention (still am honestly) and it made my head swim. I can't see why I wouldn't count it, but I forgot to tally the marks in the 2NT column in general : /. This also looks like the lebensohl 2NT, but lebonsohl is a lot more than a 2 NT bid. So in your bidding would 2♥ - 2NT - 3♣ - 3♥ be Stayman with a heart stopper conversely would 2♥ - 3♥ be Stayman without a stopper? (this is where I started tanking) or do you just borrow the 2NT puppet bid? From what I understand, in this use case lebonsohl is used after the takeout double of a weak 2 bid by the responder. I wasn't and am still not really certain it would work invoked for overcalls and advances. Quickly applying lebonsohl: overcalls of 2 of higher suit would still be natural and non-forcing overcalls of 2NT puppets a 3 club (3 level continuations would work) overcalls of 3 of a suit could still be game forcing overcalls of 3 level cue bid, could still be Stayman w/o stopper (I don't know what advancer would do here with out stops in the opps suit and no 4 card major, is a new suit to play? How could he force? if short in opps suit, how could he show a long minor with slam interest? It's not like he can retreat to a previously bid suit so sign off and forces become problematic) 3NT makes me a little sick to my stomach, but transfers the problem nicely. Being able to apply lebonsohl here has the advantage of one fewer gadget to memorize, but it seems like it will wrong side more contracts than 4 suit transfers... and as nekthen points out, I also lose the ability to pass in 2 NT as it is now a puppet bid. Thanks for the responses, it's given me a lot to think about.

I wasn't playing with my wife at the time. She was playing while I was at work. so all I had was a screen shot taken right after dummy fell. At first glance I like the bidding structure, especially being able to show both minors cheaply, but I need to spend some time thinking through the various auctions... Just for clarification is it supposed to be 3♦ - 4♠ is the acceptance with 4 spades, 3NT would be acceptance without 4 spades, what would a response of 3♠ show? Slam try in spades, or should it be a sign off? Would a cue bid (i.e. completing the transfer) be better to show interest in continuing the auction? Should the cue show, deny or be silent on hearts stopper? I kind of like 3 levels as showing weaker overcalls and cues as showing slam interest. this would take the top end of the range off the 2NT overcall. So transfers could be used on weaker hands with long suits 5(6?)+ (continuation of strong transfers TBD) and Stayman would denote some extra strength with interest in a major suit game. 1 [tab] 2 So these would be the possible Stayman auctions: 2♦ - 2NT - (P) - 3♣ (Stayman) - 3♥, 3♠ or 3NT (3♦ here could be pick your major with Smolen responses), extra strength would need to be shown at your next turn to bid. 2♥ - 2NT - (P) - 3♦ (Stayman) - 3♠, 3NT, 4♠, 3♥ super accept in spades 2♠ - 2NT - (P) - 3♥ (Stayman) - (Pass) minimum 4+ hearts, 3NT, 4♥, 3♠ super accept in hearts --This would be the only auction where the strong hand doesn't declare. Great now I have even more questions, I might start a new thread in the intermediate forum after some more thought. Our local club was recently able to scratch up two tables for a Wednesday night game, and they seem to have me (correctly) marked as the newbie and I was stymied by a preempt multiple times on the two occasions I was able to play. They also seemed very capable of working around my preempts. As an aside, is there a better way to format sequences like the above so they are more readable. I looked through the pinned topics and the help section, but didn't find much. If there is a preferred format please provide a link. Thanks a lot for the suggestion...

It's probably inexperience, but I shy away from NT contracts when I know ops have a 6 card or longer suit, which is what would make me want to transfer. I would rather play in minor part score than 2NT part score and I'm probably not gutsy enough to bid 3NT.

On a reread, I caught that too, and tried to post a correction. The phone doesn't use puppet on the 2 nt over call, but I kind of like the idea. I use puppet over 2nt openers, but not 4 suit transfers again configuration limitations... I wouldn't have invoked stayman on this particular auction with doubleton spades and counting 9 known hearts plus pd implied heart stoppers means west is most likely stiff.

I think this is where things went South... My suggestion of a transfer would have been North's response to my suggested 2 NT overcall of the pre-empt, not the 2 ♠ she actually bid. I would have definitely passed her 2S overcall just as had actually happened. So 2♥ - 2NT - (P) - 4♣ - (P) - 4♦ - All (P) would have been the full theoretical transfer auction.

I'll let her know of the +1 for her bid. Make that +2, I rejected Stayman pretty quickly, I thought the chance of getting the 3♦ response was pretty small, but without knowing the holding I was just looking for a way to talk about my diamonds. OK + 3 for spades, I'm going to have to concede the point, for not the first or last time. But... I wasn't crazy about the spades due to the distribution of the points, The presence of stoppers seemed more important to talk about, but I frequently open five card majors 1 NT so I might incorrectly be applying that logic here. Since North hasn't had a chance to bid yet, and I am half expecting LHO to support hearts to the 3 level, my thinking was: I want to tell partner about my overall strength, balanced hand, and that I have some heart honors. Should I have asked this in the Intermediate forum? If someone wants to move the thread please feel free. I will in the future, default to that forum. 3 ♦ is forcing over 2 ♠... With regards to the transfers, I am just playing what is available to me, and it was only one of the options I suggested. Sitting at a table I would most likely pass the 2NT, sitting on my couch, or if West bids 3 hearts I might play it in 4♦. The system seems to work very similar to what is presented in The Lebesohl Convention Complete by Ron Anderson even though this is not a lebenesohl sequence. It was this book that caused me to turn it on in the first place. Using it I haven't met with too many calamities and I can seem to land in any contract I want. The only problem I run into is when I want to hide my tenaces, It's hard for me to become declarer in these sequences. It works basically like this: After a weak 2 Preempt bidding 2 NT shows a balanced strong NT Open. From there Pass = flat 9- 3♣ = Stayman 3 ♦ transfers to ♥ 3 ♥ transfers to ♠ 3 ♠ transfers to ♣ 3 NT flat 9+ (natural and not forcing) 4 ♣ transfers to ♦ The appeal of a transfer here to me is that the overcaller of a preempt will usually have the stronger hand (which is obviously the case this time) and as such I would like to allow her to declare. This is where I am getting a little confused. 2NT can't be lebensohl because we are overcalling, not dealing with interference. That's most likely my fault since I mentioned it first. I am also discussing my response to 2NT in the auction so after 2♥ 2NT- (P) - ? I wouldn't know about her Spades and would most definitely want to talk about my diamonds as I have little tolerance for no trump sitting in North. 2NT is not forcing, and 3NT is natural in the system described above. I doubt that is going to change opinions though. I do like your transfer scheme which seems to be of use when the preempt overcall isn't in NT. In those sequences my responses are usually natural.

Recently my wife was faced with this deal and later asked me how I would have bid it. I am just not sure what I told her was best. In the end we can't get back to the hand so I can't play it for myself...[hv=pc=n&s=skt982hkj3da6ca72&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2h]133|200|2 Heart Weak[/hv]She ended up bidding 2♠ to which all passed and dummy laid down a small doubleton in spades. Both sides were bidding in a 2/1 system with identical cards (it was on her phone). I suggested a rebid of 2NT with 15- and a stop and a half in Hearts. She thought I was daft and immediately asked me what I would do in response to the bid, which I had to think about...To answer that I needed to see North's hand and its displayed below[hv=pc=n&n=s53ht95dkqj953ct4&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2h2np]133|200[/hv]I'm assuming West would pass the 2 NT bid as it did pass 2♠Since we are the interlopers 2 NT isn't lebensohl and is showing a balanced hand. Sitting across from my wife, I might be tempted to bid a garbage Stayman here to keep the auction going so I can show my diamonds, or preferably pass her 3♦ response. I hesitate to bid 3♦ directly for fear of the 3 hearts response, which miscommunicates my hand and raises the auction without providing any information. So in all fairness I likely pass and be happy to make. If I am playing on my phone, my bid would probably be a 4♣ four suit transfer bid and I would take my chances in 4♦, but my wife doesn't play that yet so...Is there a better way to bid this hand?Was my advice of the 2NT overcall sound or should I redact my previous statement and offer her a better approach?Is there anyway for us to land in 3 Diamonds?What would you interpret 3♦ to mean after a 2NT overcall of 2♥Thanks for any input.Regards,Bill

I would first need to be both accurate at defense and superior at declaring, I'll continue to work on both.

Nice web site, it consumed my lunch hour today. It's been made clear, their interest is only social, so I'm not expecting much on the duplicate front... Which leaves me to take my licks alone. I agree, the price is right.