biggerclub

Add a vote for 22-24 2N opening here. What are your ranges for balanced hands?

The facts are not in dispute. LHO opens 1C (perhaps after I passed or perhaps not -- can't remember who dealt). Partner passes. RHO responds 1D. I pass. LHO rebids 2C. Partner passes. RHO bids 6NT and all pass. Fearing bunches and bunches of running minor suits, I immediately place the AH face down on the table. Before asking me, "Any questions?" partner drops his lead of the 6h face up. Director is called and I am desperately trying to make the point that my lead was on the table before partner's lead, out of turn or otherwise. Director instructs me to return my lead to my hand and proceeds to give RHO (Declarer) all of his usual options for a lead out of turn. At the end of which, RHO elects to ban a heart lead. Then chalks up 13 running tricks (with the help of my Spade lead). After we leave the table, I complain to partner that I thought the ruling was wrong. Partner calls the director after the game . . . who now agrees with me and adjusts the score (even though no one else but me saw that my lead was indeed the AH). I am not sure. Someone on the internet to whom the question was posed, supported the director's original ruling, citing Law 54. I don't see that Law 54 resolves this -- it only states that RHO has the option to accept Partner's lead, thereby barring mine. But of course, he doesn't want to accept that lead through his K8 of hearts. I don't know. Do you? Here is a link to the Laws, if that helps.

I tried to do this (with spaces not periods) and html stripped out the spaces. Annoyingly.

The more I reflect on this discussion, the more I am seeing the virtues of 2-way NMF (except I would object to the terminology as 2way Checkback seems a more accurately linguistic formation).

I think I am having a problem with the terminology then rather than the concepts. I agree that bidding following an overcall is vastly different than bidding following an opening bid. But I am unfamiliar with the use of x and y to distinguish the two. Still. . . . .

1D denies a 4 card major and failure to raise Hs strongly suggests no shortness (although with something like KJT, xxx, AQxxxx,x I might temporize with a 1S call and wait to hear more from P). 1S shows KJT or better in S and no other more appealing call. Generally I prefer . . . in order . . . raising to 2H with Qxx or better support and a singleton somewhere, rebidding 1S as discussed above, rebidding 2 diamonds with 6 or more (and min), rebidding 1 nt with an over, or more rarely under, strength NT shape, raising Hs with any KQx or better, bidding Cs with 4+ Cs . . . I think that about covers all the cases that would open 1D in the system. Hands with a 4card MAJ open the MAJ, not 1D/1N/2C. Even more overloading the MAJ suit opening. I ran a sim and here's what I found from approx 100 hands screened to 11-15HCP: 19 1D openers (4 of which were NT shape but under or over strength, 11 5card diamond suits, 4 6+card diamond suits), 30 1H openers (14 balanced 4 card suits, 4 canape 4 card suits, 4 5 card suits and 8 6+ card suits), 28 1S openers (including 1 where with AKQx in S and xxxx in H, I elected to open 1S)(8 balanced 4 card suits, 6 canape 4 card suits, 10 5 card suits, and 3 6+ card suits -- there were also 2 hands with 5Ss and 6Hs in my sample), 9 1NT openers (4 completely balanced, 3 with a 5 card minor), 9 2C openers (2 with 5 card suits and 7 with 6+ card suits), 1 2H opener (showing specifically 5+ Hs and 4+ Cs -- in this case specifically 5-4), no 2S openers and 1 hand that had NT shape 11 HCP but I elected to pass as we were VUL. Perhaps there is no need to reserve the 2MAJ opening for the 5-4 shape given the rarity and especially since GCC prohibits it showing bid MAJ + undisclosed MIN (2MAJ showing 2 known suits allowed -- assuming 1 known plus 1 unknown NOT allowed by inference). And this comports with my memory -- that we were bidding 1H about 1.5x as often as 1D (and 1S another 1.5x as often). I think that the "No 4-card MAJ" is a very helpful bit of information for competitive auctions. I think we may lose a little not being able to distinguish between specifically 4 and 5 cards in the opened MAJ when the auction gets competitive -- but it doesn't seem like much. While 1H or 1S covers a lot of ground, it also chews up a lot of space -- especially when regularly opening 10HCP hands. I would like to see how it does 15 years later (since the last time I played it seriously).

Oh. So then this threw me.

Perhaps, I should have added that partner is/was a high stakes money/rubber player. But I did not know that when the hand came up. He has a monster two-suiter with a small doubleton in Hs as his only red cards. He is playing in 4C down 1 while the field is 4S +2 and no one is in the slam he is driving toward. We still won the overall by over a full board. Another auction added to the list of questions I ask a new partner.

Another undiscussed NMF auction.

Two suits have been bid and supported, and a player jumps to 4NT. This must be A asking and the only real question is do we play 6 Card KCBW? Perhaps my friend, Danny Kleinman who is constantly promoting doing away with Blackwood Ace asking altogether may have a different view . . . . What pray tell did the partner not asking for aces think it meant?

OK. Here is what I think the 1D opening structure should look like in Canape 1C system. A 1D opening promises 3+ Ds, denies any 4 card MAJ, may be either a mini-NT (rarely) if VUL or, more commonly, an intermediate (13-15) NT if NV. Otherwise it is a D one-suiter or a C/D two suiter. Opener quickly describes her hand after (1MAJ response by Responder) with her second bid -- rebidding 1NT shows a balanced hand too strong or, more rarely, too weak for the 1N opener (10-12 NV, 1st or 2nd seat 13-15 all others), rebidding Ds shows 5+ Ds and usually 6+, rebidding Cs shows a minors two suiter, a raise shows three to an honor with responder plus a singleton or void somewhere. Simple rebids are min for range, jump rebids are max for range. Opener is absolutely limited to 10-15 and for all practical purposes most opening hands will have at least 11HCP. Responder does not bother to show a crappy 4 card MAJ or strain to keep the bidding open with bad hands generally. 8+HCP is the typical bottom of R's range but a few lead directers with as little as 6HCP may be in the mix. Inverted minors, non-forcing 2c over 1d and variable JS (weak NV, strong VUL). We also use criss-cross principles -- jumps in Cs show good D support and stronger hands. Rather than splinters, we use the double jump as immediate exclusion KCBW/1430. A few other esoteric slam tools fill out the higher levels of R's bids. Let me know what you think. [FYI the outline is coded for ease O1 is opener's first bid; R1 responder's first bid; O2 is opener's second bid, etc. I finally gave up on the color coding -- too much for one night] Are we going to miss too many 5-3 MAJ fits when R is weak, O has no honor with her support? Is it too much memory work (bear in mind the the 1D opening is always the most complicated part of any forcing C system), etc.?

O1. 1D = 10-15 3+ diamonds, no 4 card major, Ds almost always equal or longer than Cs R1. Responder generally passes with <8 HCP R1. Exceptions: Can bid 1M with 6+ HCP, 4+ Cards in MAJ AND lead directing value Can jumpshift NV with weak 2-ish type hand that won’t make game Can jump raise in diamonds with 5+ diamonds and 6-9HCP R1. 1MAJ = 4+ cards in MAJ, 6+ HCP, lead directing value or any 8+ HCP, 5+ length O2. 1S (Min Hand very str S)/1NT/2D = min (10-bad 12 HCP; NT is 13-15 if NV 1st or 2nd seat) R2. 2C = NMF (or 4SF) with typical structure; at least INV values O3. Opener shows any 3 card support for MAJ R3. Responder promises another bid up to 2N or 3D O3. Opener rebids 2N or 2D with 10-11 HCP (2x discouraging) O3. Other rebids show at least 1 honor there, good 11 to 12 HCP R2. 2D/2MAJ/2NT = sign off, attempt to improve contract R2. 2S after 1H (R1) = Responder reverse (Good13 HCP +) 1 round force O3. 2N/3D =discouraging (10-bad 11 HCP; or 13-bad 14 HCP if strong earlier) R2. 3C/2D = NM or 4th Suit game force, unspecified shape O3. Cue bid high cards, not shape, stumbling to NT R2. 3D/3MAJ rebid = invitational strongly suggesting play in this suit O3. Accept with 12 + HCP or 14+ if stronger NT range early O3. PASS with 10 HCP or 13 if stronger NT range early O3. Guess with 11 HCP or 14 if stronger NT range early R2. 3 other MAJ = Game Force 5/5 or better in MAJ, 6H/5S if reverse O2. 2 of MAJ= min, strong 3card support in MAJ, some singleton R2. New suit = help suit game try O3. Any bid other than 3MAJ accepts and shows honor R2. 3 of MAJ general game try O3. Bidding on accepts and shows honor R2. 2NT = forcing and probing for best denomination O3. Bid length: 3C = 4+ Cs, 3D = usually 6+ Ds R2. 3C = artificial game force O3. Bid high cards/Stumbling toward NT O2. 2N = 14-15 HCP balanced hand, at least honor single in Responder’s suit. O2. 3C = minor suit distributional freak with equal or longer diamonds, 5-5+ R2. New suits forcing R2. 3N = to play O2. 3D = 14-15 HCP, 6+ diamonds R2. 3MAJ = sign-off R2. Anything else accepts and shows high card(s) O2. 3H/1S or 2S/1H = splinter, max, support R2. 3N = suggest to play R2. Any suit = cue bid O2. Double Raise = max, strong 3 card support, some singleton R2. 3N = suggest to play R2. Any suit = cue bid R1. 1NT = 8-11- HCP, balanced or weak hand with 5+ Cs O2. PASS = <14 HCP, balanced O2. 2C = <14 HCP minor 2 suiter, at least 5-4 in minors with longer diamonds R2. Responder generally passes or corrects. R2. Any other bid is honor showing, stumbling to NT or slam interest O2. 2D = <14 HCP 6+ diamonds, retreat from NT R2. Responder generally passes. O2. 2H/2S = 14-15 HCP, concentration of values in suit bid R2. Responder places contract O3. Opener must respect Responder’s decision O2. 2N = Invitational to game, scattered values or running diamonds R2. Responder places contract O2. 3C= >13 HCP 2 suiter, at least 5-5 in minors with equal or longer diamonds R2. Responder, if MIN, passes or corrects. R2. Any other bid is honor showing, stumbling to NT or slam interest O2. 3D = >13 HCP, 6+ diamonds R2. Responder generally passes R2. Any other bid is honor showing, stumbling to NT or slam interest R2. 3NT is to play, showing fitting D honor and two more tricks O2. 3N = 7 running diamond tricks + an outside card (A or K) R2. Responder passes or (rarely) bids 4D (if very weak and afraid) R1. 2C or 2D = 10/11- + HCP 5 card suit O2. Except for 2 below, auction forced to 2N O2. 2D after 2C = 6+ diamonds, minimum, don’t like clubs R2. Responder gives up with a minimum misfit O2. 2H or 2S = concentration of values any strength R2. 2N or 3 of either min = INV only R2. Any other bid on R’s 2nd round =GF, stumbling to NT R1. 2MAJ NV = weak jump shift with 6+ length and lead directing value O2. Opener usually PASS O2. Do not RESCUE even with 7 Ds. NDNT (no double, no trouble) O2. 3 MAJ = INV (Upgrade honors in MAJ and Ds, only count As in others) O2. 4 MAJ = To make or, over interference, possible SAC. R1. 2MAJ VUL=Game Force with 6+ length and slam interest O2. Rebid 2NT with minimum and no fit R2. Responders 3D on second bid is game forcing and fitting O3. Stumbling to NT R2. Other bids are still game forcing and show shape O3. Stumbling to NT O2. Rebid 3D with maximum and no fit (not fitting a 6 card MAJ = 5+ diamonds) R2. Generally, stumbling to NT R2. Responder is Captain and must drive to proper level and strain R2. Situation is strongly suggesting forced to game even if 5D is that game R1. 2NT = 12-13 HCP may have 1 or more 4 card MAJ O2. 3D is an attempt to sign-off R2. Any bid by R is a game force attempt to elicit more information. O2. PASS is another great sign off call O2. Any other accepts and stumbles to NT R1. 3C = long diamonds and slam interest O2. Cue bid Aces R1. 3D = long diamonds and preemptive O2. Cannot imagine anything that would not pass this one. R1. 3MAJ – 4CLUBS = Exclusion Ace Asking (Responder may have self-sufficient suit) O2. Ds Trump, answer 1430 R1. 3NT = 14-16, to play O2. Might try for slam with AQx, xx, AKQxxxx, x or something similar R1. 4D = Ace Asking (minorwood 1430) R1. 4MAJ = to play R1. 4NT = balanced 17-18HCP; General Slam Try, not Ace asking O2. PASS with 11-12 HCP; except accept with A,A,A. O2. Bid A, up the line, with 13 HCP O2. Can bid 5NT with 2+ Aces and 15 HCP R1. 5C = long diamonds and strong slam try O2. Try to cooperate, but can sign off with a really bad hand R1. 5D = to make if opener is min and for slam otherwise R1. 5H/5S/6C = bid 7 if you have this Ace R1. 5N = bid 7D if you have 2 D honors (A,K,Q)

So what is the issue? Are you having trouble with (no opponents bidding) 1H - 1N - 2D? and not knowing if opener is 5-4 or 4-5 in the reds? Note that we have resolved this issue in clubs with our 2MAJ showing MAJ (5) + Cs (4) treatment. To always PASS 2D cannot be too far wrong. Or if passing partner in a second bid suit with xx is too much to stomach, then correct to 2Hs with xxxx, xxx, xx, AKJx (note that an auction of 1H, 1S, 2D, 2H works better here). I am going to start a new thread on FC-Canape (Forcing Club) so as not to pollute this one with this discussion any further.

Obviously I did not expect her to be that strong, or I would have started investigating slam, despite my min. Take away the Ks (replace it with a small one) and Jh, for example and I think 9 tricks in NT will be easier than 10 in S most of the time, despite the 9 card fit. There was a +680 on the score sheet. Don't ask me. People do revoke, I guess. As it was, the lead was a diamond, taken in hand by K. I led a C and LHO hops up with the A, switches to a H, taken by the A. I untangle the Cs using diamonds for transportation and throw the JH on the KC. Then claim.

In theory, I agree. But we don't play 2-way, I don't want to overload partner and I am trying to teach her (even though I am not getting paid) how to bid with "most" partners (hence the poll -- and also hence the appeal to Kantar whose protege is the teaching guru in our club). I thought that with NMF most play the jump to 3 in a previously bid suit as INV.

It came up in a Regional yesterday. I have a hand chock full of intermediates -- something like Q9x, ATxx, KQx, KTx. Auction goes, 1c (me) 1s (partner) 1N 3s . . . and I tank. Hold my nose and decide to bid 3n. All pass. Partner tables AKJTxx, Jx, Axx, Qx and I gasp. We now agree that jumps to three of any previously bid suit are invitational. My appeal to Kantar (who she personally knows) prevailed.

What authorities (Kantar, Root, French) I could find are split. I personally like invitational, but I want to hear from the community. Wiki-pedia claims invitational and gives a general reference to "The Bridge Guys" regarding their whole article. There is no specific reference provided for the statement that this jump rebid is invitational (I wish I knew how to add one of those "citation needed" thingys on a wiki page). I could not see where The Bridge Guys' page addresses this question on any of multiple pages regarding NMF.

Bump. Handling limited openings with 4 card majors at matchpoints came up on another thread. Which caused me to remember, Canape. Still looking for live, LA Area partner with serious ambitions.

I don't understand why these two sentences don't contradict one another

Mitch D. (Dunitz?) gave a talk at the Long Beach regional yesterday evening about using transfer responses after interference over 1 bids. Essentially the idea is after Partner's 1S and RHOs x, 1NT transfers to clubs, 2C to diamonds, 2H show a (good or bad) spade raise, 2S shows a (bad or good) raise, etc. Mitch had a handout but someone begged me to surrender mine -- I asked Mitch for his email but did not get it taken down right. A few questions: Has anyone played this and what are your impressions? Is it written up anywhere on the web? What is the ACBL's position on this? Thanks in advance, BC.

I played a lot of MP forcing club in the 90s. For matchpoints, the best solution I ever found was 4 card majors and canape. In a constructive auction, 1H or S-1N-2C or D shows a longer minor with a 4 card major while 1H or S-1N-2H or S (same suit) shows a 6 card MAJ. The advantages are -- no need for contortion to deal with the C + MAJ issue, pre-emption, and just, in general better bidding for MPs. With both MAJ 4-4 open 1H. In fact, the experience made me long for 4 card majors no matter what the system. With this system we were able to shade opening values down to 10 good points and enter the bidding more often and with a higher call giving the OPPs fits. The downside is a fairly consistent opposite (but not necessarily wrong) siding of NT contracts. Both players need to be proficient at 4-3 trump suits, but that is not that difficult. We also used 2H/2S to show 5+MAJ/4+MIN type hands (again, limited). 1D and 1NT both deny 4 card majors and, if you like 1D can promise 4 or even 5 Ds. 2D is now available as a super strong three suiter with any shortness, multi, Flannery or whatever other toys (weak 2 in a MAJ) you want use there. It is not needed to show limited opening with D shortness, since those hands hold 1 or 2 4 Card MAJ. 2C is reserved for almost exclusively 6 card club hands. And again, pre-empting, describing shape very quickly and precisely. Someone smarter and more famous than me (Haman?) said that to use a forcing club without 4 card MAJ is a crime against bridge. Responses are natural too. Tend to respond 1NT (non-forcing) with balanced hands as well as with weak distributional hands -- provided you elect to enter the auction at all (see next sentence), raise with trump support (3+) headed by an honor and shape (at least a singleton somewhere), with game forcing value and slam a possibility bid your longest suit first (2/1 super strong forcing unless suit rebid -- and even then 12-13 HCP). No need to respond at all with up to a bad 9 points (as in all strong club systems). I would love to find someone in the SoCal area will to work with and play this system now.

Well, perhaps you can forgive me for being a bit new to BBO and the conventions (by conventions, I mean clicking on the bid to ascertain its meaning -- not bridge conventions) around here. Even if a bit cocksure otherwise. Both pass and 3N are more reasonable given the meaning of the bid.

Then I would expect p to be calling for a H lead. Unusual because P could have asked for it before but didn't.

I don't see how a heart lead can call for a x (unusual lead). That trick is always there. I mean, assuming that 3 hearts is hearts and a slam try. I am not sure what to lead, but I definitely feel like (unless someone has psyched) the Heart Ace is safe for the defense regardless of what is led. Partner is asking me to think a little deeper, but I haven't solved the puzzle yet. 4c gerber? Or 3Hs some kind of convention? Maybe that's the answer. I did not x/lead direct over gerber (or H's) but if you lead it now, we win. Still -- Is partner wiggling her ring finger? Joking aside, I might be able to solve this puzzle with the explanations attached . . . . But it makes no sense to me that OPPs would bid to 7NT missing an A -- are they in a desperate "top or bottom" situation. And it makes no sense that they are even trying for a grand with 33 HCP max, let alone getting there in NT with no void to ruff/save.

I live in LA and am looking for a regular live partner who either is, or wants to get, good enough to compete at the very highest levels. When it comes to bidding, I am a very theoretical, book-educated player who regularly tries to "get in the head" of my partner during an auction -- asking myself, "what will partner think this bid means" rather than saying to myself "this bid means x, always, completely, no argument allowed." I strongly prefer using 1 club as the strong opening, but am open to a variety of systems after that. If you want to learn to play or practice playing precision or other strong club systems, I am available online. Send me a private message on BBO or reply to this thread.