RSClyde

You just need an agreement here: If double says I have both majors specifically, then this is a clear 2S. If double shows 2 places to play then you go up the line so a clear 2S. If double says "I have no idea what to do but don't want to pass" then 3C is right. But it's hard to believe that the 3rd is the right agreement.

Well I've already taken 2 diamond tricks. If I cash the heart then I'm guaranteed 6 trumps and I have 2 aces so there's no "probably" at this point.

With those 4333 hands I just bid 2♣ and raise 2nt to 3nt if partner rebids that.

Then no one ruffs the third one.

No! Let's say that trumps are 3-2 and I'm ruffed by the short hand. He started with 2 trumps. One round of trumps has already been played thus he's down to 1. Now he ruffs a diamond, that was his last and now he's out. He can't ruff the 4th diamond because is out of trump. His partner started with 3 trumps. So after only 2 rounds are played he will still have a trump and I will have no way to return to hand to draw it, that is true. However he is following to the 4th diamond so it doesn't matter. So who do you want to ruff my 4th diamond: the guy with no trump or the guy who's following suit?

What am I supposed to do read the post correctly? Geez!

Having now correctly read the problem, I will withdraw my snide comments and return to the good graces of the 2S bid. 3C makes no sense. If the double shows 2 places to play (as I play), then I should bid my 4 card suits up the line from the current bid, if partner doesn't have 4 spades then he must have 4 clubs and should bid them. Otherwise, why is he doubling if his only 4 card suit is hearts? If, as I gather most play, X shows strictly the majors, then why are we even talking about this?

If my partner doesn't think that double is takeout I'm getting a new partner: "Partner, you have a 1♠ overcall? He can't make his freely bid 1nt! We got him!" If it wasn't clear enough, In this case we're both passed hands.

If the hand with the short trump ruffs the 3rd diamond then I can cash the 4th diamond when in dummy because they will be out of trump.

Of course another possibility is to play ace and a club to the Q at trick 2/3. If that fails the diamond finesse must be on. Unless the guy overcalled 1S on KJ 5th and out. And you still have a trump to get you there for the spade pitch if the club works.

The only way it fails is if the overcaller also has 4 hearts so that he still has one after ruffing once and playing 2 rounds of trump, and no king of diamonds and the first diamond is ducked. I'm not conceding a very frequent overtrick for an odd lay out.

If you rebid 1nt on a wider variety of shapes as we do, you still need some room to probe. I can still ask about 3 card spade support by bidding 2♥ over 2♦ to show an invite with 5 spades and bidding 2♠ over 2♦ to show an invite with 6. (2♥ direct over 1nt shows an invite with hearts)

That gives up on a trump coup when RHO has 4. There can't really be one with this many diamonds but I'd prefer to keep east afraid to ruff the 4th diamond. Everyone else seems way more anxious to draw trump than I am. I think rushing to unblock hearts is a "habit play".

Why would you let it get around to partner rather than just doubling it yourself?

I agree that if you have a game force and only 4 spades then starting with 1♠ is wrong. But by playing 2♣ as a transfer to 2♦ (or s check back if responder bids again) you can still play 2♦ as a GF. This gains when I want to show an invitational 2 suiter because 3m is invitational, whereas with the forcing hand I want to play that as a slam try. Where's the loss?

why?

He's going to have to ruff it with his good looks because he showed out on the second trump.

Really? I play that as forcing. It can't be THAT uncommon. I play XYZ so I've got 2 way checkback going in all sorts of auctions like: 1♣ P 1♥ 1♠ X* P ? and even the same auction with a pass instead of support double. There are ways to play minors too, but you have to play clubs at the 3 level. Otherwise just suck it up and bid/pass 1nt.

That is not true. The king of hearts is an entry to dummy. As long as west didn't start with 4 hearts I can cash the diamond when I'm there.

Why not just make a responsive double over 1nt? Now when they bid 2♣ partner is off the hook.

Wait why did I play a second trump? That's not my play, I'm running the J of diamonds while in hand. If that lives I'll try another, if it flushes the K then I'll play a trump, get the news, and cash the ace of spades. Now 2 more rounds of diamonds will be attempted putting east in the hot seat. If he refuses to ruff then I'll discard my spade and ruff a spade stripping the east hand. Now J and a heart will end play east. If he instead ruffs the diamond then I'll overruff collecting trumps and try for a strip squeeze against west which will only work if west has the club king (and doesn't unblock spades) or fails to swallow his partner his partner's honor in the end.

If west cue bid 3♣ and then pulled 3nt to 4♥ it probably should show a choice of games between the majors.

I'd bid 4♥ even is 3♥ wasn't invitational. Even with that crappy hand that Are came up with 4♥ is a good game. What suit do you think their taking tricks in? With the club bid, and partner's stiff spade and one heart loser, aren't we rating to take 10 tricks? If 3♥ is invitational, then east is definitely to blame. And yes, I mean blame. Passing 3♥ is horrendous hand evaluation. I took the liberty of dealmastering this and opposite a 10 count with 6 hearts, 4♥ was an 87% game, and west could be a little better than that but not much worse. If 3♥ isn't invitational then I'm still blaming east. But now I'll blame west too. No one has mentioned this but west made an unnecessarily bad bid. If 3♥ isn't invitational then a hand like x AKJxxx Jxxx xx is kind of awkward because you'd like to invite game with it. However that wasn't west's hand at all. With the hand he held, 3♠ was clearly invitational. You don't really know which suit will play better, if it makes an difference at all. Hearts probably rates to be better, but we can't be sure, so isn't the bid which clearly shows game interest better than the one that doesn't?

4♠ is terrible, 5♦ is beyond terrible.

I'll ruff a heart to dummy and lead the J of diamonds. If there's no cover then I'll normally go up with the K in such a situation but here the bidding seems to strongly suggest that west has the ace so I'll let it go. I can probably gain some information by ruffing the Q of hearts to dummy, though I'm still not sure that it helps if the K appears. Whatever the case if ever intend to go up with the K of diamonds, I should hold off on discarding on the ace of hearts: why give them the information? This doesn't deserve to make after this auction. If you think that 6♣ is there then bid it over 4♥, since that's apparently not the case, why bid it now? It can't look right to "save" in 6♣ over 5♥.