rmnka447

The redouble should show values, so the opponents probably have at least half the points in the deck. So this looks like a partscore hand minus any extraordinary distribution. I pass 3 ♠. Double looks right on the hand given. Overcalling with that shambolic ♠ suit invites numbers when the opponents have a stack and more than the balance. Pard may be competing with an eye to making and/or driving them up one more level.

5 ♥ for me. That seems like the most likely positive result. There's no way to know if pard has the right cards for 6 and really no way to find out. So I'll take a good result versus a potentially perfect result.

I'm used to playing a form of Roman Jump Overcalls (presumably a big 5-5 or better hand in the "jump" suit and next higher unbid suit) over a weak 2 bids. So for me, the auction would have to go either 2 ♥ - 4 ♠ or 2 ♥ - Dbl. I'd probably opt for 4 ♠. In any case, I originally cast a vote for Double when this thread came up. I've been cogitating since on what to write about that choice. On the auction, a double of 5 ♥ can hardly show a ♠ stack given the level of the contract. Partner probably only has a stiff or void in ♥. BUT, there are probably enough hands where it's just possible that partner might have a ♥ doubleton that I hate bidding on without distribution in their suit. While I do have tolerance for partner's suit, I don't have any holding that makes me think partner trump suit is solid. Double then, though penalty oriented, should be showing partner some good values and ask for his input.

RESPONDER'S 1st RESPONSE Normally, a negative double is for takeout and normally shows 4 cards in any unbid major. This is especially true over a 1 ♥ overcall because it lets you differentiate between a 4 card or 5+ card ♠ holding. You double with 4 cards and bid 1 ♠ with 5 or more. This enables opener to know when it's OK to raise with 3 ♠s. There are a couple exceptions to having the unbid major after an overcall. One is where you have a decent long suit but don't quite have the values to make a free bid with it at the 2 level. For example, if your hand was slightly different -- ♠ KJx ♥ x ♦ QJ10xxx ♣ Kxx, you don't have the values to bid 2 ♦ directly after the 1 ♥ overcall [e.g. 1 ♣ -(1 ♥) - 2 ♦]. That would show ♦ and about opening bid values. So you make a negative double and hope to bid ♦s on the next round if partner bids ♠s. When you this kind of negative double, you need some length and quality in the suit you bid as there's no guarantee partner will have a good fit for your suit. So with the actual hand you held, you don't have 4 cards in the unbid major or a long enough, good enough ♦ suit to double and than bid ♦. With a singleton ♥ -- no stopper, bidding 1 NT is not possible. So almost by default, you come to a 2 ♣ raise showing about 5-9 points and 4+ ♣. Another exception is if the bidding would have gone 1 ♣ - (1 ♦), then a negative double guarantees 4 or more cards in each of the unbid majors. Also, after a minor opening and minor overcall {e.g. 1 ♣ - (2 ♦), or 1 ♦ - (2 ♣)), a negative double guarantees holding 4+ cards in at least one major, but not necessarily both. OPENER'S REBID Opener normally doesn't rebid in the unbid major unless holding at least 4+ cards in the suit. A minimum rebid in the major shows a minimum hand (12-14). A jump in the major shows a good hand (16-18). And a cue of the opponent's suit, normally shows an even bigger hand and implies holding a control in their suit. In the actual auction under discussion, opener jumped to 3 ♠ over the opponent's raise to 2 ♥. So partner should be showing the 16-18 point hand with 4+ ♠s. WHAT NEXT (DO YOU BID FURTHER?) Well, you hold 9 point hand opposite a 16-18 point hand for partner. So between your hands there ought to be enough stuff for a game. But the worrying thing is that you might only be on a 7 card ♠ fit (known as a Moysian fit). A key factor in playing such fits is if the opponents can force the 4 card trump hand to ruff. If they can, then it may cause partner to lose control of the trump suit. (Remember holding 7 cards in a suit, the opponents cards are more likely to break 4-2 (48%) than 3-3 (36%)). But the suit they are most likely to try and force in is ♥, where you hold a singleton. So being able to take a ruff in the short (3 card) trump hand usually makes it OK to play in the 4-3 fit. I think it's right for you to bid 4 ♠ with your hand.

Let's see -- the missing honors are ♠ Q ♥ A ♦ KQJ ♣ AJ. Partner has made a positive response at the 3 level and followed it up by bidding a second suit. (♥s must be a second suit because with ♦s alone, 4 ♦ would be a slam try.) It seems to me that partner is marked at a minimum with the ♥ A and ♦ KQ(J)xx. I'm bidding 6 NT.

I think 1 NT is the correct bid with the North hand. The alternatives are odious. 1 ♣ followed by 2 ♣ is a serious underbid. 1 ♣ followed by 3 ♣ may address overall strength, but will seriously deceive partner about the ♣ holding. Based on a strictly on bidding balanced hand slams based on point count, no one did anything wrong. South might consider exploring the minor suit situation after North's 2 ♦ bid denying a major. Based on the known point count, the hands appear to have enough assets to make an 11 trick minor game. There's not really any necessary bias toward bidding 3 NT versus a minor game at IMPs. It's just important to get to a game that makes. 30-31 HCP might be enough for a slam if there's fit and the right controls are in place. In some of my partnerships, we play that after a 1 NT-2 ♣-2 ♦ Stayman sequence, a 3 ♣ bid shows either a forcing hand with a ♣ suit or is a forcing minor suit checkback hand. If opener has less than 4 ♣, 3 ♦ must be bid. With 4 ♣, opener makes some other bid. That type of agreement would certainly uncover the ♣ fit, but I'm not sure on the exact sequence that gets you to 6 ♣/6 NT.

Playing either 2/1 (i.e. Forcing NT after a major opening) or standard, the auction turns out to be the same -- 1 ♠ - 1 NT - 2 ♣ - 2 ♥. Playing standard, a 1 NT response to a 1 of a major opening is a catch all response that just shows someplace between 5-10 value. There's absolutely no guarantees about stoppers or distribution. Opener can pass the 1 NT response with a flat minimum hand. Believe me, playing standard over the years, I've played 1 NT with some pretty strange looking hands when partner passed with a minimum 5-3-3-2 hand. With a lower ranking second 4 card suit, as in the hand queried about here, opener will normally bid it. It allows responder to take a preference or possibly bid a long suit if one is held. Here that's what should happen (i.e. 2 ♥). Opener with minimum values and a tolerance for ♥s should pass 2 ♥. Playing 2/1, a 1 NT response to 1 of a major is forcing for 1 round. Again it is still a catch all response, but shows a wider range of values -- someplace between 5-12 value. After the Forcing NT response, opener only rebids his major with 6+ cards in the suit. With only 5 cards in the major, opener normally bids a lower ranking 4 card suit, or, without a 4 card suit rebids his lowest ranking 3 card suit. Any further rebid by responder below 2 NT shows 5-8 value and is non forcing. So here after opener rebids 2 ♣, responder rebids 2 ♥ to show his heart length and opener passes. It looks like in the actual auction, South overbid by bidding 2 ♥, then couldn't find another bid when opener rebid his major.

Thanks Ken and Hog for your comments. They are most apropro. My own experience playing weak NTs with my favorite partners for over 30 years pretty much reflect your comments. The most effective opponents have been the folks making solid calls against us. If you want to venture in the auction with flimsy values and/or flimsy suits over a weak NT, be prepared for getting your head handed to you fairly frequently. Everyone seems to forget that the NT bidder's partner can have fairly substantial values even with a passing hand. There have been literally hundreds of hands over the years where the opponent's intervened and responder held 9-10 and a stack so laid a double card on the table for penalties and we collected at least a +300 or better result. Huge penalty sets of 1 NTx against weak NTs are more myth than reality. Over the years, I can recall only about a half dozen times that a penalty double of a weak NT led to a number. Part of that is that we weak NTers are pretty adroit at running out of 1 NTx to a suit contract. Frequently, this is much more difficult for the opponents to double or sit for. So they'll often find their suit and we're off the hook. When we do sit for 1 NTx, we're pretty close to making and usually not off more than down 1. The really bad results are about equally distributed between 1 NTx and 2 of a suit doubled. The major problem with the weak NT is playing 1 NT when there's a 4-4 major fit that strong NT pairs will find because they are opening the hand in 1 of a minor. In the hands in this thread, I said I'd bid ♠s with the hand that doubled. I'd do it, but would be a bit nervous about it. I would really like to have a better ♠ suit holding. I wouldn't be surprised to see a -300 or worse if responder held a stack and values.

If the penalty double is based on the agreement of upper end equal values or better (pretty common these days), then East definitely has to pull it. If doubler is at or near the bottom of the agreed penalty range, then the opponents will have about half the points. In that case, defeating 1 NT may be a problem. Dummy will have some values (~6-8 points), so Declarer is a bit less likely to be stuck playing out of his own hand. Additionally, Strong NT pairs are going to open the hand in 1 of a suit. Against them, East can see West with a flat hand will double if short in the suit or presumably pass/bid 1 NT with values in the suit. Under these circumstances, most Easts are going to end up bidding ♦s anyway. Finally, East's hand isn't really conducive to defending 1 NT. It'll likely only contribute many tricks if partner can find an inspired and readable ♦ lead AND ♦s can be set up before the ♣ entry is forced out. So I'll give East 60% of the blame. West gets 40% of the blame for doubling with that hand. I think the choice is between passing and bidding ♠s. I'd probably bid the ♠s.

I think getting to a minimum of 6 ♥ is right based on the North hand alone opposite most openers. Given that the preemptor has some ♠ honors, opener almost assuredly has to have at least 2 As to have an opener. So there ought to be some reasonable play for 6 in any case. But a key factor is that opener may never be able to fully appreciate how big a playing hand responder has by simply jumping to 6 ♥. So, I would bid 4 ♠ and then follow it up with 6 ♥ over whatever opener bids next.

How about something like ♠ - ♥ KQJ10x ♦ AQ109xx ♣ Kx where ♥ A opening lead defeats 7 ♦?

You can hardly go wrong if you bid 2 ♣ and pass partner's rebid. If partner bids 2 ♦ and has 5 ♣s you're still playing a 5-2 7 card ♦ fit. if partner plays a 4-3 ♠ fit, you can accommodate ♣ ruffs in the short trump hand.

I pass because partner knows pretty much what my hand is and chose to double. If I have solid ♥s, then I can't have a lot beyond the advertised stopper in ♠ with a 15 HCP max for opening 1 ♥.

I'd give it one more try also with 6 ♣. 7 ♦ has a reasonable play if partner has as little as x Axxxx AQxxxx x. You know pard has much more than that with the 2 ♥ reverse. Unfortunately, you can't be absolutely sure that pard does hold both red As. I would have bid 4 ♦ directly over the 2 ♥ reverse. It would show a hand with a big ♦ fit that is much better than a game force and, therefore is slammish in ♦s.

Sorry, but if I were North and had bid this hand as shown ... After the hand, I'd simply put my cards away and say to partner "Sorry, Partner, my fault." and move on to the next hand.

Without looking at the discussion, I opted for ♠. I'm thinking any ♠ honors must be in front of partner after the 1 NT bid, whereas any ♦ honors are likely behind partner because of the ♦ length guaranteed by the doubles.

I agree with all that North's opening bid 1 ♦ wasn't really an opener. It's a flat 11 with only 1 1/2 QTs. North compounds the problem with a 1 NT bid after the 1 ♠ overcall. Sure, North has a ♠ stopper, but the free bid really conveys that North has at least a very solid minimum opener with a ♠ stop. North has a pretty clear pass -- there is a ♠ stop, but the hand is awfully light. Passing conveys the message that North has a minimum and no clear cut bid. If later in the auction North gets a chance to show the ♠ stopper by bidding NT, then South knows that North has a bare minimum opener. In the actual bidding, I think South actions are pretty normal. Note that if North passes in the first round of the auction, South will open 1 ♥. West will likely overcall 1 ♠ (West bid with both North and South unpassed hands, highly unlikely that he'd pass with North a passed hand). Then North has to find a response. I'd probably bid 2 NT or try to show a 3 card limit by whatever methods you play. The rationale for bidding 2 NT is that the North hand can't make a short trump hand ruff and is therefore unlikely gain an extra trick in a suit contract versus NT. In any case, it seems likely that the hand would still end up in 2 NT or 3 ♥ anyhow. The result might not be much different but, at least, the bidding would be better.

I'm in the crowd opening 1 ♦. If you open 2 ♣ and it is followed by 2 ♦ (waiting ?), what do you bid next? Partner will have problems figuring out that you hold only 4 cards in any suit you bid. If you try to bid all 3 suits, the auction can get pretty high. After 1 ♦ -(Pass) - ?, the responding hand should bid 1 ♠. After 1 ♦ (2 ♥) - ?, as mentioned earlier Pass is correct because you don't have the values for a negative double at that level.

+1 for mgoetze's sequences.

The initial double is too rich for me, especially since the biggest chunk of points is the stiff A in the opponent's suit. Part of the problem with that card is that it detracts from essential suit quality in the suits you do hold. That leads directly to the second issue with doubler's hand, suit quality. All of doubler's suits have either honor and small cards or all small cards. They don't the honor combinations or honor/intermediate (10s,9s) holdings necessary to limiting the amount of losers in the suit. As trump, opposite four small in partner's hand, all of doubler's suits are going to lose at least 2 and possibly 3 tricks to the opponents. Mel Colchimaro, the ACBL Bulletin columnist and noted bridge teacher, recommends a minimum takeout double HCP count of 10 plus the number of cards in the opponent's suit. So on the hand given, he'd want 11 HCP minimum for a takeout double. That's a pretty good, workable standard to use. How light you double is partly a matter of style. But if you regularly double with hand's as light as this one and with hands of approximately opening values or better, consider how much more difficult it becomes for partner to accurately assess where the hand belongs. As for advancer's hand, I'd simply bid 3 ♦ with it. That shows about 8-10 points and presumably a good 5-6 card ♦ suit. While it's possible the ♥ suit might be lost, it gives a pretty accurate picture of what advancer's hand is. If game is to be bid, doubler has to have a bit better more than an opening bid. So advancer may get a second chance to show ♥s. It's even possible that doubler has the 16-18 point ♥ overcall hand. Advancer would have little problem bidding on to game if doubler shows that hand. One important point -- doubler guarantees only a minimum of 3 cards in any suit, there's no guarantee that an 8 card ♥ fit even exists. A double will routinely be made with something like ♠ AKxx ♥ AJx ♦ xxxx ♣ xx. Opposite advancer's hand, a ♦ part score with a 10 card fit is vastly superior to playing in the 7 card ♥ fit. The problem with trying for a ♥ contract before showing the longer ♦ suit is that doubler will never figure out that advancer has longer ♦s than ♥s. In the actual auction, it sounds to doubler like advancer is at least 5-5 in the red suits.

4 ♠. ♥ AJx is worth a little more behind the ♥ bidder. 4-3-3-3 makes slam pretty remote unless partner has a huge hand, so is not worth a 4 ♥ bid. 3 NT would be a crap shoot with nothing in the minors. I don't want to bid 3 ♠ and give partner a chance to miss a good game.

It's still possible for partner to have anything from a very good hand to a near bust. So I'm going to opt for a simple 3 ♦ cue and see what partner does next.

Sorry, but with a 6-6 hand, I can't ever envision letting the opponents play 4 NT, especially when partner shows a fit in one of my suits. With only a stiff in the minors and a huge ♥ holding, it seems like the NT bid has to be based on long running minors with a ♠ stop. At this point, I think a 5 ♥ bid stands out. We've already agreed on ♠s, so it must be showing some ♥ holding and a willingness to play 5 ♠. It may also be some help to partner in figuring out what to do if the opponent's carry on to the 6 level Given a choice, I would have started bidding ♥s directly over the 3 ♣ bid, probably with a 4 ♥ choose a major call. (I don't think that a 4 ♥ call could ever be a self splinter in a competitive auction where advancer has made some positive noise. But if I was worried about partner's interpretation of the call, then I'd simply bid 3 ♥ followed later by 4 ♠.) I can appreciate that maybe tactically 4 ♠ was chosen to try to shut out the auction without revealing much.

Hand #1 North should reevaluate the responding hand after the direct ♠ raise by South. If South's raise generally guarantees 4 trumps, then you're looking at least a 10 card fit. Adding value for either shortness (3 for the singleton ♥) or trump suit length (1 for the fifth, 2 for the 6th trump), the North hand is worth about 12 opposite partner's opening bid. Most folks will just blast to 4 ♠ on those kind of values. If you decide to invite, the question is what are your tools over the raise to 2 ♠? If you play Help Suit game tries, then any new suit bid over 2 ♠ asks for help in cutting down losers in the suit bid. Here after a 3 ♦ Help Suit game try, South with ♦ Ax would carry on to 4 ♠ as that holding ensures no more than 1 ♦ loser. The other tool often used is a Short Suit game try. Instead of bidding a suit needing help, any new suit bid shows shortness (singleton or void). Normally, the ♠ raiser carries on to game if his/her values are primarily outside the short suit. Here, after a 3 ♥ Short Suit game try, South can see that there are no wasted values in his/her hand. So even though it's a very minimum hand, South should carry on to 4 ♠. Most partnerships will decide to use one of these tools Using either of these methods, the partnership can decide to use either 2 NT or 3 ♠ as the traditional power game try (i.e. bid game with a maximum, subside in 3 ♠ with a minimum). North really doesn't have the type of hand to use a power game try in this hand. But if he did have such a hand, South would decline to bid game and place the hand in 3 ♠, if necessary. Hand #2 I'm assuming you are playing 1 NT = 15-17. The contract you want to be in is 3 NT. If 3 ♣ is invitational, then South absolutely has to carry on to 3 NT. South's hand is a maximum -- 17 HCP -- and has some nice placed intermediate cards (i.e. 10s, 9s, 8s) in addition. All 3 side suits(♦,♥,♠) have sure stoppers in South's hand.

A lot depends on your agreements. If partner can field you occasionally raising on only 3 ♠s, then 2 ♠ is the proper call. Yes, you may be putting partner into a 4-3 fit. But a key factor if you do so is where a ruff may have to be taken if the opponents play a forcing defense. A 4-3 fit is less a problem if the ruff(s) can be taken in the short trump (3 card) hand. This prevents a forced ruff in the 4 card trump hand. Shortening that hand to 3 trump loses control of the trump suit when the trump are breaking 4-2. Here, you have a good ♣ holding and honors in the ♥ suit preventing the opponents from forcing your side in those suits. It looks like if ruffs are forced, they will be in ♦s which can be safely taken in your hand. If partner would have apoplexy if you raised on 3 trump, then you're stuck with rebidding 2 ♣. In that case, you have to hope partner can find another call so you can show your ♠ support.