hamish32

This strikes me as an odd post. Why compare multi 2♦ with Flannery 2♦? I have played both and currently play 2♦ as 9-12 with 5+♦ because it suits the rest of my system. The experts who play Flannery point out that its best because of the hands that it removes from the rest of the system not because of the bid its-self this was my experience certain problems don't arise because we would already have opened Flannery. Incidentally if you play 2/1 GF with a weak NT or 2/1 GF with a strong NT and Transfer welsh (all 11-14 bal hands open 1C) then it makes best sense for 1NT to be 100% forcing because opener always has a second suit when he has a hand in the weak NT range. Pointing out that each particular system spec will have specific problem auctions and this is probably the reason for including or excluding Flannery.

This is an interesting point about missing 6NT. I think its hard to optimize methods for everything. When I was thinking about missing 6NT I realised that we almost always use cue-bidding turbo when we have fitting hands and shape. It is very hard to know weather 6NT is a good idea once we have found a good 6m. For example on occasion I have bid 6NT in a turbo auction and gone light discovering 6m was already a near top. So I gave up - our turbo approach is optimized for suit slams. When we bid 6NT its generally on power and frequently via a quantitative 4NT or a key card sequence followed by 6NT.

This structure looks more like Key Card with no asking bid first. The main point of TURBO is to avoid getting into making one player captain and thus keeping both players in the decision making process. Its a mind set shift. Which ever partner knows the correct contract first they bid it all other bids are providing more information and expressing the fact that we are still looking. For example once a key card is missing we bid slam, once we don't have a suit held we bid game. It seems to me in this thread that the issue of looking for the queen is being delt with two different ways by different partnerships- some are interested in finding the queen below the 5 level so they can avoid bad slams or slams on a hook in the trump suit. Others are interested in the Q once they are looking at bidding a grand. For my self at imps I don't mind missing the Q as the second potential loser its often a two way finesse position and that I am happy to call a good slam if the rest of the hand is otherwise sound. Its often resolved by the lead if the opps don't know we are missing the Queen because we have not asked. If the hand is shaky and I don't have the Q I will tend to bid game and partner if partner has extras including the Q they will generally then TURBO knowing one thing I was looking at was no Queen. On the other hand once we are looking for grand the Q of trump is a top priority to locate below 6 of our trump suit - so we use 5NT as a cue for the Q suggesting all the keys (if all keys is not already known).

We use Zars points to decide when to open we open 26+ Zars hands. The Zars calculation is more complex than HCP but not that complex: (HCP + 2 for Ace + 1 for K) + (two longest suits added together) + (longest suit - shortest suit) These hands are all balanced so not that interesting in terms of playing potential. As others have said if you open a weak NT they probably meet the 1NT requirment otherwise you have to decide if you are willing to rebid 1NT. I have given the Zars for those with a 5 card suit since the others dont really relate to the Zars approach. 1: (12+3)15+(5+3)8+(5-2)3 = 15+8+3 = 26 Zars 2: 3: (11+3)14+(5+3)8+(5-2)3 = 14+8+3 = 25 Zars 4: (11+3)14+(5+3)8+(5-2)3 = 14+8+3 = 25 Zars 5: (10+3)15+(5+3)8+(5-2)3 = 13+8+3 = 24 Zars 6: (10+3)15+(5+3)8+(5-2)3 = 13+8+3 = 24 Zars Where Zars is really usefull is assisting the development of judgment for example hand 6 is rubbish but change it a little and its 26 Zars and an opener: KJTxx KT9 xx KT9 24 Zars KJTxx KJTxx void JT9 11+10+5 = 26 Zars but only 9 HCP KJTxx KT9x x KT9 13+9+4 = 26 Zars same 10 HCP Zars does not evaluate texture. However there is no question that 6 is much better than 5 but they get the same Zars. As an added tweek if you are opening below 12 HCP hands you could add a point for good texture and deduct a point fo bad texture. That makes 5 worth 23 and 6 worth 25 which is probably about right. People that apply Zars also evaluate Zars for responder and raise to game on 26 opposite 26 if they have a 9 card fit. The calculation for responder involves deducting minor honours in unbid suits and adding 1 Zar for each hnour in openers suits.

One thing you do not mention are your agreements over 3C. What would the 1NT hand need to act over 3C? It makes some sense to play 3H as a 4 card raise / 3D as a maximal super accept / and X being a control heavy max with 3 card support with a small doubleton in C. This helps responder decide what to do as with those agreements with the hand you have or even one a little stronger pass is clear. It seems your partner may have a very good hand for H but still passes 3C leaving you feeling that you should bid with your limited values incase you find partner with something. Additionally did you have a way to raise to 4H on the previous round? we like South-African Texas where 4C shows a transfer to 4H and 4D a transfer to 4S - we use these with weak hands where we want opener to play the hand. your hand is not quite good enough in those methods for a 4C bid in response to 1NT. -------------- regarding normal methods after 3C on your auction a new suit is forcing / X is takeout / and 3H is an invite with 6 (since with GF and 6 you already bid 4C and with a GF with 5 you can X). You need a better hand to invite if partner would have shown support as described above - this hand is a clear pass.

X as GF so that you can make a range of weak and invitational bids is not great. Expert standard treats X as takeout - at the 3 level it has to show a hand that can tolerate a penalty pass or the bid of a 4 card !S suit at the 3 level.

This is a terrible idea. We play 2!C as 9-12 at least 54 in the majors eitherway. The strongest thing about this auction is being able to raise agressivly wgen you have a good fit for 1 major. For example the other day i raised to 4!S with KJTx x kJTxx xxx. Partner had a 12 count with a singleton !C so this was a game swing. Once you include all the gf hands into 2!C you destroy the good parts of both methods.

I don't think X showing both unbid is the best treatment. I know many people play this way however a more modern treatment is that X shows 4 cards in the unbid major. So with this example hand I would still X. 6D and 5S is such an uncommon hand where as we regularly find a 44 fit if we stretch to X any time we have 4S.

We do play weak NT. However when playing strong NT I would play the same methods here and with 4S I would prefer X than 2H and with 5S I would bid 1S rather than 2H. So opener does not need to worry about a 4 card S holding once responder bids 2H - getting the major across has to come before supporting D. This means 2S by opener after the 2H limit raise shows 5 cards in S. 1D - (1H) - 2H - (P) 2S - (P) - 3NT- (P) 4C - (P) - 4D - (P) 5H - (P) - 5S - (P) 5NT- (P) - 7S 2H limit or better 3D 2S 5 cards in S 3NT serious slam try in spades (opener has 65 shape) 4C/D first or second round cue 5H exclusion blackwood 5S 3 or 0 5NT do you have the Q (responder must have 3 not zero to bid 3NT) 7S yes I have the Q

We play the 3 bids as transfers showing a 6 card suit and a slam try. It is still possible to find a !S fit after this opening. 1NT - 3!C 3!D - 3!S 4!C - 4!D 4!H - 4!S 4NT - 5!S 5NT - 7!D 3!C slam try 6!D 3!D 3+ card support 3!S 6!D4!S 4!C/!h!/!S fist or second round control 4!D waiting 4NT turbo 0 2 4 key cards 5!S do you have the Q we have all key cards 5NT yes but no second suit 7!D dosent matter we must have enough

3NT by responder is awful. We have the agreement that 2NT shows 4 card support in an invite + hand. While 2!H is an invite + with 3 cards. Over 2!H opener can bid 2!S this must show 5 since 2!H denied 4 card M. Now grand should be no problem. I prefer 7!D to 7!S

A couple of things to resolve confusion: Gib is not able to evaluate his hand accurately after a splinter so it is better when playing with gib not to splinter - also if gib splinters don't offer a cue bid as gib is unable to evaluate his hand opposite your cue. With gib stick with key card where you are in control. That said it is useful if you have a regular partner to develop some meta agreements about splinters and cue bids so that you can work out at the table what a bid means. our agreements: 1: A double jump is a splinter showing a 9 card fit and agreeing the last suit bid as trumps. 2: A new suit at the 4 level is a cue showing first or second round control (shortage if its a jump but it can be a shortage or an A or K if its a non-jump). 3: In a game forcing auction agreeing our suit at the 3 level demands cue bidding and denies a shortage (some people play requests cue bidding). 4: A new suit at the 3 level is natural and forcing (some/most play game forcing at the 3 level so that a new suit at the 4 level is then agreeing the last suit bid as trumps and cuing). with these meta-rules all the auctions above in the list can be understood. 1NT - 2♥ 2♠ - 3♣ slam interest with 5♠4+♣ 1NT - 2♥ 2♠ - 4♣ slam interest 6+♠ short ♣ no second suit. 1♠ - (3♦) - 4♣ here with no room to bid a new suit at the 3 level I think it depends on your agreements about X being takeout. In my partnership its very good ♣ bad ♠ (I can bid 4♠ to play game there and 4NT to key card for ♠ - also X is takeout so we have many options but I need to be able to show single suited GF with ♣ when I am unwilling for partner to pass a X with a ♦ stack.

we open 1♦ as 5+♦ 13+ points and we open a weak NT so 1♦ is unbalanced in the 13-15 range. it can be 4441 and 16+ specifically (because 1NT opening has all 4441 hands in that range but 1♣ is 2+. last night this hand came up: KQ6 A92 AT762 K4 AT875 QT KQJ5 A7 our auction: 1♦ - 1♠ 1NT - 2♣ 2♠ - 4♦ 1NT is 16-17 balanced with 5+♦ (some 5332 or 5422 or 6322 hand) 2♣ is GF checkback 2♠ 3 card support and 5♦ 4♦ suit setting 7♦ is easy after that start. Standard auction seems similar: 1NT - 2♥ 2♠ - 3♦ 4♦ although only opener knows about the double fit and only responder knows about their strength making grand harder as it needs the double fit and the extra cards. We find we frequently bid more accurately than the room when we get to start with a strong 5+ suit at the 1 level in ♦. When they intervene responders ambiguity is much reduced. Balanced hands with 16+ and 4♦ are opened 1♣ with a 1NT or 2NT rebid

I play a Mosca inspired system and find the forcing 1♦ opening (unbalanced with 5♦ and 13+ points) to be the strongest part of the system - or at least the opening bid that generates the most advantages over opposition playing weaker shorter ♦ openings.

Playing a weak NT with Game Forcing 2/1 responses it makes perfect sense to play a forcing 1NT since you always want to pull 1NT since you always have a second suit or more power. Playing weak NT with non GF 2/1 responses - non forcing NT response makes sense. Playing Strong NT with Game Forcing 2/1 semi-forcing NT makes sense since with a weak NT 5332 hand and some sub-optimal openings you are better on average to be allowed to pass 1NT even though it might have a bad 12 count. Some people prefer a forcing NT when play playing GF 2/1 and strong NT - I expect they may be the people that prefer sound openings so they have less disadvantage in having to find a bid over the 1NT response and gain an additional advantage in being able to include more hands in their 1NT response since partner will always respond. Some of these folk even include some specific quite strong hands in the 1NT bid since its 100% forcing. EDIT: I think standard methods include 10-12 bal no fit and 10-11 with 3 card support as well as 5-9 no fit. Some people (Burgan players and some others) also include a 6 card lower suit with 10-11 points these intermediate raises are played by many as jumps and those that choose this method seem very positive about it.

your general methods have to be good enough that partner can tell that you had 1 because of the earlier actions. When responder has shown a very weak hand 4NT is 0 and 5T is 1. So long as responder has forced the slam exploration with a very strong hand he should be looking at the rest and so knows the answer.

Agree Mike I prefer more than Qxx or Kx. sometimes my hand says 1NT and in these cases that is the minimum from my point of view. A while ago there was a poll on this on Bridge winners and you and I are in the minority with many people ignoring holds altogether or requiring Jxxx or T9xx only. I was very surprised at that it does not seem hard to catch up with an 8 count with no hold.

I agree that 1NT must show a hold since this way we right side 3NT if we have the tricks for 3NT but can be just 1 hold say Kx or Qxx in responders hand. I don't mind pass with a 6 count as has been suggested above but 1NT has the advantage of right-siding the NT cheaply. 2NT is a funny bid to make. Surely at this point if NT is correct from responders point of view he can just bid 3NT? It is normal I think to play 2♠ as a 1 round force not necessarily a game force. So sometimes responder may want to get out. However it would be more normal to get our into one of your suits not into 2NT after all he already suggest NT and you choose to reverse rather than bid some number of NT. If 1NT shows a hold then surely 2NT is 18-19 and 3NT is some hand with solid ♦. So 2NT by responder natural should not exist. 3♣ from you seems OK we would play this as 4153 or 4054. we don't skip a bad 4 card ♠ suit. 3♦ must be a suggestion to play and should be passed if 5♦ made then 3♦ is wrong. In terms of agreements: We use 2NT in reversing auction as an artificial enquiry showing a positive response to the reverse. So 2♠ is a 1 round force responder can get out now by preferencing (or re-bidding their own suit if they showed one). 2NT is a stronger enquiry over which opener can describe their hand: 1♦ - (1♥) - 1NT - P 2♠ - (P) - 2NT (P)? 3♣ - 4153 3♦ - 4162 or 4261 3♥ - 4351 no ♥ hold 3♠ - 5162 or 5261 3NT - 4351 with a hold This assumes 2NT is not a bid we ever want to make naturally and that it is a game force if used artificially (kind of reverse lebenshol). This means if partner makes a preference rather than bidding 2NT they are showing 5-7 hcp and opener with a very strong hand can still move again.

We play along these lines in a weak NT context: 2C = 2+ C (so C or balanced) 2D = 5+ D 2H = 5+ H after 2C: 2D weak relay 2H 16+ 4+H 2S 6+ cards non solid 2NT 16+ balanced 3C 16+ 4+C 3D 16+ 4+D the 2D as a weak relay works well in a weak NT context where the 2NT rebid shows the range above the 1NT opening. this means responder describes after the 2!D relay: 1S - 2C 2D - ? 2H = 4H 2S = 3+ cards support 2NT = balanced slam interest 3C = 5C 3D = 4D 3NT no interest in slam opposite partners minimum (no concerns about holds)

That is a 1NT opening. 5C should provide a safe landing spot later if necessary - but we would like to buy it for less than that.

of course we have missed a few slams we might have bid had we risked to venture to the 5 level and we bid 6 a few times where we might have stopped safely at the 5 level out of a refusal to ever play 5. :lol: my point is that on hands where partner may expect the higher number being 4 or 3 because of the strength of the previous sequence but in fact you only have 1 or 2 then its best to make a slam try then stop in game. when they look at their hand they will know whether or not to make a move. for example Qx KQJTxxx Axx x partner opens a weak NT: 1NT - 3D 3H - ? 3D is a slam try with 6+H & 3H shows 3+H. Its nice to have now 3 ways to arrive at 4H, 3NT being the best, 4C being the middling way and 4H being the worst hands. The worst possible bidding sees you bid 4NT TURBO and have partner with 0 or 1 not know whether to expect 2 or 4.

Hullo Benoit I agree; the modified Gazzilli gets us too high too quickly on this hand meaning their is not room to show the void and we are lucky our use of the TURBO method happens to be able to highlight the heart control. However I was more trying to display our use of the 5 and 6 levels is seeking grand slam.

No. You never play in 5NT you play in game or slam (occasionally 4NT rather than 5m). The fun is in positioning the auction so that both players know what's missing. When one player has the Q and partner stops in game they will be confidant they can go further because they will see the dilemma. Unlike Key Card and Kickback this is not an ask-tell situation their is no captain both players have the information to make key decisions at each point. If it makes more sense 5S is a cue expressing the absence of the Q while 5NT is a cue expressing the presence of the Q so that partner can co-operate. 5NT expressing interest in grand showing the Q keeps the 6 level below 6NT free to find grand - we found frequently we needed 1 more card to be sure. Here is an example played at national congress: N - S P - 1D 1S - 2C 3C - 4C 4D - 4H 4S - 5D 5S - 6D 7C North AJ94 742 AQ 8654 South K63 void KJT742 AKQ7 2C is Gazzilli 3C is 8+ 4C is suit setting 4D 4H 4S are 1st or second cues (we don't cue shortage in suit partner has shown) 5D is TURBO 3 (includes void on this occasion since North cant have 3 aces after passing) 5S asks about trump Q - it is clear to north at this point that we can play 6C - South has bid 5D already knowing we have all the keys because of the auction so 5D is just letting north co-operate in looking for grand. North cant see the trump Q but likes the QD so they use 5S 6D shows the trump Q and asks about the QD. 6D is playable on this hand since North is implying 13 tricks if Q is held so either 6D or Q of S. 7C shows an extra picture in D.

Take this normal sequence: 1S - 2D 2H - 2S 3D - 3S 3NT - 4C 4D - 4H 4S - ? Because opener bid 3NT slam is very likely and 4S is a positioning bid. if opener had bid 4NT rather than 4S it would tend to show 4 key cards. Alternatively if opener had cued their club shortage rather than bid 3NT serious then 4S is a suggestion to play and 4NT would show 2 Key cards. So when opener stops in this game forcing sequence not having bid 3NT serious it suggests 0 or 1 key cards. With 3 Key cards he would probably have used 3NT serious and then let responder move over 4S. Every sequence will eventually be clear because you have a number of ways to arrive at 4S. But it takes time and practice in a serious partnership to clarify them all. alternatively take a minor sequence: 1D - 1S 2H - 2NT 3S - ? Here 4D would set D as trump for cue bidding and any other suit would be a cue for S. 3NT is a suggestion to play. when opener uses turbo because they have shown a strong hand you can assume the higher number if they had the lower number they would bid game: 3S - 4C 4D - 4H 4NT 4NT is 4 because having shown a big hand with only 2 opener bids 4S - responder with 2 can bid 4NT after 4S because openers sequence is strong and they already know we have all the suits stopped and the approximate limit of the hand. with 3 opener would cue an ace at the 5 level because responder has been co-operating in a slam investigation and we have 1st or 2nd in all the suits. if on the other hand responder want to investigate 6 or 7D: 3S - 4D 4H - 4S 4NT 4NT here is ambiguous it could be 4 it might be 2. if responder looks at his hand and cant tell i.e. he has 1 key card only. then he bids 5D and opener with 4 will cue again or bid 5S suggesting grand slam might be possible and showing 4.

I have been playing Turbo for about 3 years. I think is it superior to Key Card by quite a long way and kick back by a bit. It takes some time to appreciate all the nuances but once you are used to it you can almost always tell the exact number of Keys because of the prior sequence. I suggest not using the next step above the trump suit as turbo. keep all 4 minor bids as suit setting. Use 4NT as the turbo bid. the reason is that the key decision is weather or not to go past game. being able to cue the 4 level is key to this - if you set a minor suit as trump you can cue then turbo with 4NT and then decide weather to continue to some slam play 4NT or bid 5m. use 3NT as a serious slam try when looking in a major - this will clarify the later turbo bid - and assist you to never go past game when looking for slam. The main strength of Turbo is that you know below game whether or not you can make slam. We have not played a 5 level major contract in 2 over years. We use 4NT to show even. Actually you can generally maneuver so that you decide who will turbo in the auction eg bidding 4 of your minor in a strong sequence to position who cues which suits or bidding 3NT when looking in a major for the same reason. 4NT even seems to come up more often than 5m odd. we use 5S to ask for the trump Q (or 5H if S is trump) - then 5NT shows the Q, 6 of trump shows no queen and 6 of a new suit shows the Q and an extra sauce of tricks (i.e. if you have a picture in this suit bid the grand) - so 5S implies all the keys. also we use the 5 level to cue and a cue at the 5 level implies all the keys.