Try SKAT, german card game in which clubs deserve the top position! The order of the values is more logical as elsewhere : J,A,10,K,Q,9,8,7!!! Everybody bids alone for his own! [no silly partnership misunderstandings] The winner of the auction can bluff the opponents and choose the NULL contract in which he tries to loose every trick :P No passing out! 3x pass = RAMSCh contract = try to avoid taking tricks and points, player with good cards will be punished for his pass :angry: etc etc etc! This all + lot of beer+ lot of cent coins = really tough pub competition B)