Cthulhu D

Inquiry plays: 1C (1S) X Bal or 5+ Diamonds 1N Wants to play here opposite a weak NT 2C 4+ Hearts 1RF 2D 5+ Hearts, Invite+ 2H 5+ Hearts, NF But it's easy to lose a minor fit.

With the 1C-(1S) auction, it would be good to have the following hands across double, 1N, 2C, 2D: Neg double type hand Balanced (1N type hand) Constructive club hands Constructive diamond hands Both minors type hands (otherwise it is too easy to lose important diamond fits when they compete to 2S, particularly at match points). I don't know how to do it though. I think it would be a good idea to make it clear which of the heart raises suggest bidding 3H over 2S as well when defining your system. The most common auctions are 1H-(1S)-2D/2H-(2S) and we don't have the shared understanding yet of when to bid 3.

We've just started playing this: 1H-(1S) Pass Denies 3 hearts, any 5 card suit and 8 or more points X Clubs or balanced misfit, or balanced too strong for 3NT 1N Natural with stopper 2C Xfer to Diamonds 2D Sound hearts raise 2H Competitive raise 2S Mixed Raise 4 Hearts 2N limit+ for H (systems on) 3x Fit Jump 3H preemptive 3S asking for S stopper for 3N 3NT To play Loosely based on inquiry's stuff. I'm... not sure what I think. Two raises to 2H is great, the lack of a minors bid is.. slightly painful but not a show stopper? I'm not sure I'd enjoy playing 1N as artificial here. Dunno. As for 1C-(1S) I've looked at trying: X Bal or 5+ clubs (or maybe both minors?) 1N Minors or 5+ diamonds 2C 4+ Hearts 1RF - this bid is massively poor. 2D 5+ Hearts, Invite+ 2H 5+ Hearts, NF 2S Limit Raise 2NT Weak clubs (really terrible, suggests not bidding 3NT vs a good hand) or GF 3C preemptive (stronger than 2NT, suggests possible 3NT vs a good hand) 3D Fit Jump (4+ Clubs 5+ this suit) 3H Fit Jump (4+ Clubs 5+ this suit) 3S asking for S stopper for 3N 3NT To play I'm even less sure about this because it's hard to find both minors.

It's going to be huge c.f. 1C-(2S) vs (2S). Not sure it's going to be evidenced though because I'm not sure anyone has played a team match where the dealer wasn't symmetrical.

It played a homebrewed MOSCITO at the Computer Bridge Worldchampionships - the bid tables have already been developed. The solution is not to update it, given that it is a unique MOSCITO variant to meet the conditions of contest for US midchart events. Just leave it as is. Then you can play MOSCITO if you are complaining about the bots not being able to handle wide ranging opening bids, or you can suffer with the implementation of 2/1

Well, come on, what's some better values then. LC Standard has the 1S overcall as 8-17 HCP. It cannot have 5 hearts else it would be Michaels. Advancer has 5 spades and a pre-emptive raise, so is that as little as 0-6? More? Less? Finally, what does responder have? I think this is the most complex hand type. He not got a negative double (7+ 4 hearts?). He didn't bid 1N, so he doesn't have 8-10? with a stopper. He didn't cue, so he doesn't have a simple, mixed or pre-emptive diamond raise. I don't play better minor so I'm not totally sure how many diamonds you want to bid 3D, but I'm guessing it's 5?

To be fair, I think the club king works as well. What are the conditions of simulation? South has: x AKTx AKQxxx Ax West has: 5+ spades, 8-15 points (and maybe some sui quality restrictions, like 2 of the top 4 honors, and he does not have 4 hearts I am guessing?) North has less than an 8 count with 4 hearts and less than any 10 count I'm going to guess, and not 5 diamonds East: 5+ spades, less than an 9 count? Assuming 4S is a pre-emptive raise (so 5 spades less than 8 HCP and 1S is a regular overcall so 8-15 HCP with 5+ spades).

Why does a penalty double need to be pre-alerted? Edit: I guess if he was doubling 100% of 3NT bids in competition, but he's not. He's doubling on the basis that he doesn't think this is making. But he could prealert it as 'aggressive or speculative penalty doubles of 3NT in competition' and then he can also then play pass as 'they may be walking the dog' and then you won't know what to do.

Couple of other clarification questions as well: In a couple of places you can show the same hand directly or via the 2C gadget. E.g. You have both 1S-1N-2N v 1S1N-2C-2D-2N to show a balanced hand. If the direct bid is basically GF are the relay bids 15-17 HCP?

It has a comprehensive MOSCITO system already implemented - having an option to enable MOSCITO-BYTE with full relays when you have purchased a robot would probably be useful, and potentially low cost as the bidding database already exists. Though Hrothgar has been dismissive of it in the past, so it might suck. It is possible based on Ginsberg's remarks and knowledge of how GIB's simulations work that it is easier for the robot to play a relay system - GIB's monte carlo simulations are going to be very well positioned after an auction like 1S-1N 2D-2H 3D-?? Now GIB knows that opener has exactly 3=3=6=1 and thus can deal hands that fit the bidding (and thus caculate the optimal place to play), very quickly. Obviously limited openings (e.g. MOSCITO style 9-14 1DHSN openers) would help this massively. Having it as a toggable option would be very useful.

Not really - I mean how often do you want to actually make the mixed raise of clubs when partner could be 2344? In my experience the answer is 'less than once a year at ~30 boards a week' You can just put them in 1S and then bid 3C over anything by partner as well.

OK I finally nailed partner down (plane trip together lol) so we could work through some of the outstanding discussion items. Partner's expressed preferences - we're not going with 2N as puppet stayman, and we probably prefer putting the hearts invites though 1N-2D because we're not confident in our ability to land on our feet after 1N-2C-2S with 5 hearts (or, atleast, 3H as a spade raise is more valuable). I like your suggestion of putting the 5/5 hands through stayman, but I think we need them for the minor Canape hands (I ran AWM's approach of 4M6m hands going through the transfer but partner is not a fan). So that leaves us with: 1N: 2C: Promissary Stayman for all invites with 5 spades, 5/4 majors and 4M5m hands 2D: Hearts, after acceptance 2S is invitational with or without 4S, 2N/3C transfers 2H: Spades, after acceptance 2N/3C transfers 2S: Range Ask or Clubs 2N: Diamonds 3C: Puppet Stayman 3D: 5/5 Minors 3H: 3=1=(45) 3S: 1=3=(54) 3N: To play 4C: GERBER (can probably be set on fire) 4D: Hearts 4H: Spades 4S: Quantative invite, min 4N: Quant, Max. Full details:

P's style is a bit more nuanced. So: 5332 with 5H always opens 1N, the risk of a 1S overcall and the cramped rebids outweighs the desire to show your major. 5332 with 5S generally opens 1S unless the major is poor (e.g. QTxxx or less) 5422 typically opens 1M. My style is roughly: 5332 opens 1N 5422 sometimes opens 1N, so 1M-1N-2m is either unbalanced or with values packed into the two suits. So I don't need to cater for 1H openers being 14-16 balanced. So prior to your post I was thinking something like 1H: 1S: 0-4 or 5+ GF 1N: Inv(-) with 5+ Other stuff normal Then 1H-1S: and 1H-1N Whereas after 1S-1N However, I am rethinking some of that. We do not play Flannery no. This is pretty clever, though I don't like driving past 1N with the weak NT as that often rates to be the best place to play. That said, I think you are often going to be able to pass as responder if it's a potential misfit. This makes sense, the 2C as checkback is a good idea.

The biggest issue is what do you need in terms of clubs to raise partner after an auction like 1S-1N-2C. Obviously if you always have 4 partner can freely raise, but if you may have 2 you need to be a lot more circumspect. If 3C here is defined as a weak hand with club length (the logical use of the bid if 2C is two ways with an artificial meaning), and one player always opens 1N with a 5-3-3-2 hand in range and the other player rarely does, the expected club lengths of 3C changes significantly. You're skirting the edge of the regulations if 3C is defined as 4+ clubs but one partner is rarely going to have 4 for the raise.

I'm anticipating this means 'you have to agree the bids mean the same thing but you can adopt a different approach in deploying them' - otherwise how can you adopt a different 'style' at all? Edit: Or is this a ridiculous situation where I am forbidden from discussing with partner that he has decided to rarely open 1N with 5 spades (only when the spades are poor quality) but I will always do it if 5-3-3-2 and sometimes (5242) because that would then form an agreement and it would be against the rules?

So playing 5cM with a 14-16 NT, you obviously have to know what you do with 5-3-3-2 hands in your NT range with 5 spades. I personally open 1N 100% of the time without any thought. Partner has a much more nuanced view and rarely opens 1N in this situation. Can you adjust your responses in constructive sequences to adjust for the relative probability that each partner has a strong NT with 5 spades in the subsequent auction? Relevant ABF regulations: For example, we play 1S-2NT-3NT as a balanced hand showing 'extras' (and we have ways of showing 6 card suits or any shortness or any 5422 so this is basically 5-3-3-2). Opposite me, partner 'knows' that I have 17-19. Whereas for me I cater to partner having a 15+ NT style hand. Therefore a quantitative NT invite means different things. Other sequences require more significant adjustments to cater to partner's style. For example, after 1S-1N, I probably want a 2C rebid to mean different things depending on the partner that opened 1S. If I'm at the helm it MUST show 4 because I don't need to do anything else with a 14 count, but partner does need to make a noise so 2C could be on a doubleton. This then effects how you might want to raise partner. To what extent can bids after 1S-1N-2C-?? have different meanings depending on the partner that opened 1S?

So, playing 5 card majors, a short club with transfer responses and 14-16 NT with invitational jump shifts, I've put a ton of work into being able to pass 1S-1N as often as possible. However, my partner does not like opening a 14-16NT with 5 spades (argh!), so this raises a question: If you're generally not going to open 1N with your 5-3-3-2 hands in your NT range, what's the best use of 1S-1N-2C? Do you play some sort of 2C-2D gadget or do you play Gazzilli? Edit: Supplementary question. Partner and I play and like 1H-1S as 0-4 spades or 5+ spades and a GF, and 1NT to be 5+ spades invitational or less (as you can then happily pass 1NT on a bunch of junk). What do you do with 2N playing Gazzili after 1H-1S-?? then.

Just to clarify my understanding of the question, you're basically asking about raptor hands for responder right? e.g. 4S and 5m for responder? You could play something like: 1C-(1H) X = 4+ spades, may be a minor canape only if GF - the normal problem hands are 5+ spades GF type thing, but you can put them here. 1S = not 4 spades, relay to 1N - rebid 2m with a NF clubs or diamonds style thing. 1N = Natural NF 2C = 5C 4S NF 2D = 5D 4S NF 2H = Raise 2S = Fit jump 2N = Clubs 3C = Other clubs 3D = Minors 3H = Stopper ask 3S = Splinter 3N = To play Altenatively, if you want to put the 5m4S hands in X, then make 2C F1. Tip of the Hat to Inquiry for some of the above.

Draft structure, obviously some holes. Structure is basically: 4 card suppport after 1D-1H 2D: Bad hand 2H: Full opener 2S: Mini or slammy splinter 2N: 4 card game forcing or 17-19 with 3 card support 3H: 15-17 (implies club shortness, but could be a suity 2=4=2=5 thing) 3S, 4CD splinters 3 card support after 1D-1H 11-14 with 3: Forget it Transfer then 2 level support: 15-17 Transfer then 3 level support: 17-19 Rebid 2D then bid on: 3 card GF support Immediate jumps are 15-17 with shapely hands Weird exception to the general hand structure is: Transfer to 2D: 11-14 Direct 3D rebid: 15-16 1D-1H-Transfer to diamonds, 3D: 17-18(-) 1D-1H-Transfer to clubs, 3D: 18+ with 5/4 and 3 cards in oM after a 1M response to 1D, you cannot show a 15-17 hand.

Yeah, I figured that was one solution. Works for me.

Yeah, I like this and will steal it. What do you do with the 3=1=5=4 (vs GF ones) hands in the 15-17 range after 1D-1H? I was looking at: 1D 1H 4+ Hearts 1S 4+, 12-17 points 2C 7+ points relay 2D minimum with both minors 2H 15-17 with 3 card support - 1=3=5=4 (ish) 2S spades + diamonds 18+ GF 2N 3=1=5=4 minors game force 3C 5/5 minors game force 3D 6+ diamonds 3H ?? 3S ?? But that doesn't leave any room for the 15-17 3=1=5=4 hand type. Cannot splinter in partner's suit either. Everything else works really nicely except that hand type.

Partner likes support to be shown directly BUT removing the 4 card support hands this is a good idea. You're thinking something like: 1D-1M: 2NT: Any game force with 4 card support 2M-1: Bad raise or any game force with 3 card support: 1N: 4+ clubs or any game force with no support? - After which 2C is the GF Gazz bid? Edit: Argh, What do I do with the 3=1=5=4 15-17 hands? You want to start with Gaz I think, so this is tricky. Then other hands are defined thusly: 1D-1H: 1S: 12-17 NF 1N: Clubs or Gazzilli 2C: Diamonds 2D: Bad raise or any game force with 3 card support 2H: Good raise 2S: Invitational or slam going splinter 2NT: GF raises with 3 of very strong 17-19 with 6/3 3C: 5/5 15-17 3D: 6D with 15-17 3H: 15-17 with 4 3S: GF splinter, no extras 3N: ?? 4C: Splinter 4D: ?? - 6D 5M? Rebids after 1D-1H-1N - not sure these values make sense. I'm not sure where to set the dividing line between bidding 2C and doing something else. 2C: 8+ GF - not sure this is the right value. Maybe it should be a bit weaker to deny game interest opposite the 15-17 rebid? 2D: <8 HCP, 2-3D 2H: <8 HCP, natural, 0-1D 2S: <8 HCP, natural, 0-1D 2N: ??? 3C: <8HCP, natural, 0-1M Openers rebids after 1D-1H-1N-2C: 2D: 11-15 min 5/4 2H: 1=3=5=4 with 15-17 2S: diamonds + spades GF 2N: 5/4 minors GF - denies 3 hearts 3C: 5/5 minors GF - denies 3 hearts 3D: 6 diamonds GF - denies 3 hearts Edit: What do I do with the 3=1=5=4 15-17 hands? Then after: 1D-1S 1N: Clubs or GF (Gazzilli) 2C: Hearts 2D: Diamonds 11-14 (may have 3) 2H: Bad raise or any game force with 3 card support 2S: Good raise 2NT: GF raises with 3 of very strong 17-19 with 6/3 3C: 5/5 15-17 3D: 6D with 15-17 3H: Invitational or slam going splinter 3S: 15-17 with 4 3N: ?? 4C: Splinter 4D: ?? - 6D 5M? 4H: Min GF splinter Rebids after 1D-1S-1N - not sure these values make sense. 2C: 8+ GF 2D: <8 HCP, 2-3D 2H: <8 HCP, natural, 0-1D 2S: <8 HCP, natural, 0-1D 2N: ??? 3C: <8HCP, natural, 0-1M Openers rebids after 1D-1S-1N-2C: 2D: 11-15 min 5/4+ minors 2H: ??? - how should this be different from starting with 2C directly? Pretty sure we should define 1 sequence for 6/5 hands in the reds, probably this one. 2S: 3=1=5=4 with 15-17 2N: 5/4 - denies 3 spades 3C: 5/5 minors GF - denies 3 spades 3D: 6 diamonds GF - denies 3 spades 3H: ?? 3S: ?? Tip of the hat to Free for some of the material. That make sense? Any ideas for the vacant bids? (bolded with ???) You lose the ability to show a mild (11-14) 6D 4C which is unfortunate I suspect but everything else looks really nice and defined. Now I have more hands that I know what to do with in places e.g. What's the difference between: 1D-1H-1N!-2C!-3D and 1D-1H-2C!-2D-3D and 1D-1H-3D I think it makes sense to limit the other hands to a bad 17, then we can do the following Similarly what do you do with opener's reverses after auctions like 1D-1H-2C-2D: 2S: ??

OK I bailed up partner and this is go, so I think we're going with: Opener range definitions: Trash: 11-12 (I am highly ashamed of my opening) Opener: 13-14 (I have a real opening hand Max: 15-17 GF: 17/18+ Generally where 2N is available for that hand type (as responder when very weak can get out in 3D or 3M), 2N = good 17+, otherwise it is 18+. This has symmetry with our systems after 1C-1Red(xfer). 1D-1H: 1S: Natural, 11-17ish 1N: 4+ Clubs, Forcing 2C: 6+ Diamonds 2D: Bad raise of hearts with 4 or GF with 3 2H: Good raise with 4 2S: Jump reverse, like 18+ or maybe mini splinter. 2N: Either 17+ with 4 or 3H and 6D 3C: 5/5 3D: 15-17 with 6D 3H: 15-17 with 4 3S: GF Splinter 4C: GF Splinter 4D: ??!?! Follow on principles: 4 6 w/3 5 with 4oM 5 with 4 clubs and 3 5 with 4 clubs and 3 oM Trash 2D xD-P 1S xC-Pass xC-Pass Opener 2M xD-2H 1S xC-Pass xC-Pass Max 3M 2N 1S xC-2H xC-3C GF 2N 2D-3D 2S 2D-3C xC-2S Meta rule: After opener has patterned out his hand and range, responder is expected to place the final contract (N.B. logically new suits are a slam try or a try for 3N?). Diamond rebid ladder: 1D-1H 2C-2D-Pass 11-14 with 6 diamonds 3D 15-17 w/6 without 3 card support 2C-2D-3D GF w/6 diamonds without 3 card support I think we're always ahead of the room in both the level we are at, and whether we are in a GF auction. Transferring into a clubs then rebidding is 5/4 Transfering into diamonds then bidding at the 3 level is 18+ GF single suiter Spades looks pretty similar with the obvious changes. 1D-1S: 1N: Clubs 2C: Hearts 2D: Diamonds 2H: Bad raise or 3 card GF raise 2S: Good raise 2N: Either 17+ with 4 or 3H and 6D 3C: 5/5 3D: 15-17 with 6D 3H: 15-17 with 4 3S: GF Splinter 4C: GF Splinter 4D: ??!?! I'm not sure if I like the asymmetry in the rebids ladder caused by 1D-1H-2C-2D-2H showing a weaker hand than 1D-1H-1NT-2C-2H but I think that may just be life. Also, not sure what to do with the GF with single suited diamonds and no 4 card side suit or 3 card suit (so 1=3=6=3 or similar distribution). I kinda feel like I have to put it in 3N.

You have to accept one hand is going to be too high, and it's either a 5332 balanced, a 55 major two suiter or a 5422 major two suiter - I kinda feel like the 5332 hand is fine to be the one that finishes too high, because that hand is the one that is mostly tightly defined and least benefits from a LTTC try.

Ddouple post