gszes

P shows extra values by x followed by 3c we showed extra values with our 2s bid so we are essentailly forced to game. We do not have a balanced 8 count for our 2s bid we have a 6 card suit it would probably be very helpful to p to know we have length points included in our 2s bid. bid 3s and be leary of slam tries with our singleton opposite p clubs our suit is not strong enough to insist on its being trump the 3s bid here will help show the difference btn our hand and say KJT9xx xxx xx xx (bid 4s) where a singleton honor is sufficient support.

IMO you have a weak 2 in hearts (and a decent one with good suit plus a probable working dia Q) but you have a weak 2 bid when you know p has 3 card support it is hardly a huge risk to invite with 3h this may block the opps from competing further in spades so you might win the hand even if u go down but p has to cater to you possibly having as little as xx KQxx Qxx xxxx when they x only you know your hand is worth 2 more tricks than that. Asking if p in on top is a great bid with good chance of success. While this deal might have been a tad lucky to make 4h imagine p haivng xx Axx Kxxx AKxx an you waltzing home with 4h. Bidding only 2h here is more of a MP decision than an imp one since its only 1 board but you are still risking going against the field by not inviting (thats not always a bad thing but most mp are won playing better than the field not merely guessing right in the bidding (ie bidding 2h and a 3h invite goes down). At IMPS not bidding 3h would border on criminal.

p knows i have extra values and just because p couldnt bid over 3s means they are broke. Rho failure to raise spades increases the likelihood we can nail 3sx if p decides to convert. If p bids 3n we will be happy to sit but bidding 3n is just too unilateral for me.

see no reason why not low dia 4th or 5th depending on agreement

I grew up on sequences like 1n 2c 2s 4n meaning we did not find a spade fit and I am now inviting to 6n. I took this for granted but over time this seems silly to me. If I have sufficient values to try for 6n then by all means try 4n quant. If the parnership has enough for slam (or is close) they can still investigate at the 5 and 6 level for even a minor suit slam. Maybe settling for an easier to make suit contract:))) the overall process of bidding would work like this after 1n-4n for ex: if opener is min and balanced (no 5 card suit) they pass if opener is max they can just bid 6n OR (in case they have a doubleton increasing the possibility of a ruffing value) they can bid 5n to show a hand with 2 4 card suits (partners bid up the line to find a fit and play there) OR opener shows a 5 card suit at 6 level (if opener started with 5422 they are probably better off treating the hand as having 2 4 card suits. if opener is somewhere in between introduce 5 card suits at the 5 level as this may be enough (if p has a fit) to increase your probability of making 6. The partnership then uses 5n as a sign off especially at MP at IMPS the thought of stopping in 5 of a minor is not so horrid. By adopting this method responder can freely use stayman to search for a 4 card major (and to a lesser extent a minor suit fit) and failing to find one they can sign off at 3n and if a fit is found (probably making their hand better) they can then use 4n as key card. these same concepts can apply to 1n 5n type bidding as well. Let me know (like i could stop you) what you think is it time for a change????????????????

I would not bid 6d after 5d any finesses needed rate to be wrong but i also disagree with the 5d bid if playing inverted minors 2d a much better bid that 5d (which should be weaker) if not playing inverted minors a 2h start is much better showing a limit raise in dia. assuming the bidding starts 1d 1h 2h (limit raise) 3h by me asking for a heart stopper when p cannot show a heart stopper 6d is a standout since p has to have almost all of the remaining hcp (outside of hearts) to begin with a 2h bid

Your p heard your weak 2 bid and you have a weak 2 bid even if its a tad more defensive than most it is hardly out of line---P opted to bid 3s and you have zero clue why they did that. You have no idea of how many spades they have or how many hearts if they could not afford to bid more than 3s or if they just wanted to make it a tad more difficult for the opps to find a minor suit fit. I tried for a long time to imagine a reasonable x of 4h and gave up and this hand type never occurred to me (sorry for the good try with 7411 but it sems a 1s bid would do better there). If p were near the top of their passed hand with a spade fit they would have begun with 3h so thinking they might have stuff is especially wrong opposite a passed partner. Oh i would bid 4s because whatever p thinks they have I dont have what it takes to support the x for penalties.

I normally see myself deferring to the hog when his comments hit before mine but here I am not so sure. Yes indeed p might be opening a light hand 3rd chair but that does not mean an X cannot be tried first (at these colors we should be salivating at the chance for a huge penalty). It is not just the possibility of a penalty that interests me but that x is also better at gathering extra information that might make it possible to upgrade our hand from the invitational hand we have to game forcing after p responds if they do not convert to penalties. I prefer to save my 3h bids for more offensive types of hands with not much defense so penalties do not look like a good shot for ex QJx Qxxxx KJx xx When I x the only bid that causes me any real heartache (when p does not convert) is 3s. While we might have a double fit (surely p would strain to bid 4s with 4 spades and near max) we might also be stuck in a 43 spade fit vs 53 hearts when p is minimum. OUCH but proabably not a horrendous ouch. If p rebids 3d or 3h the double fit or extra heart length make my hand better and bidding 4h makes more sense.

x if p has a spade stack (and we have a game) we have a tremendous chance of setting this 800+ since declarer will have to play out of their hand the whole time and if p has nothing but good long spades being in 1sx might be our only chance for a positive score. X also gives us 3 relatively safe places to play if p cannot stand the x where a 1n might already be bad and leaves us only hearts as a safe haven when p is weak and has at least 5 hearts. I p can back in with a 1n bid we have enough stuff to bid 3n (as long as they are not from the school of spade stop I dont need no stinking spade stop I have 8 balanced points and I am bidding 1n).

i do not see the logic here from many of the responses---1M p 1n p p your p is going to be on lead they will mostly be able to look at their M suit cards and see if you are long in the opps M. An x in PO seat (under these circumstances) seems to do nothing more than warn the opps they are probably in a poor spot and gives them a chance to run out if they have one. IMO when the opps open 1M and the bidding goes 1M p 1n p p and X should be a weak TOX. P has some power but may have been hamstrung in the bidding because they had the wrong distribtuion to enter. The delayed TOX should be very clear you were too weak to act initially but are balancing because it is a lot safer now. When the opps open 1m a much stronger case can be made for PO X being penalty. This is mainly because there are far fewer places the opps can run if things look poor for them. It is also much more difficult for p to have a decent hand a poor distribution to enter the bidding earlier. P will not normally be able to look at their m cards and tell you are long in the m suit just from the bidding. IMO 1M p 1n p p x = TOX 1m p 1n p p x = long in m penalty try vs 2m = long and weak

if p were a passed hand I would hazard a 3n bid but when p is unlimited the 3n bid might get us into all kinds of trouble we just dont need. P have little sense of humor when they have 16 count and we have ummm overbid by so much. When p is a passed hand we do not have such worries and at favorable even going down 3/4 no bid deal since the preeempt will normally make it quite difficult for passed p to ever find a 3n bid.

intriguing hand my initial thought was a heart return seemed best overall but after further analysis I like a club but not the club K. I would lead whatever clbu had the best chance of convincing declarer I had nothing in clubs (dependent on partnership style). The main reason for this is because it also caters to declarer holding say QJx KJx AQxx Axx. Leading the club K here is an obvious disaster but the club 8 (for ex) might also convince declarer to rise with the A to avoid losing to partners theoretical K and giving me a dia ruff. Declarer might consider this LOP because they will have 9 tricks and can score 10 by guessing hearts. If p has the club A they will also know my heart holding was insufficient to build tricks before decarer ran home so their only option will be to try for a dia ruff. This switch might also work if declarer has the QJx Kxx AQxx AJx where we might convince declarer to go down in a cold contract. and even though a heart switch could work here I am unsure how to make it clear a dia ruff would be the only way to go when I lead a heart.

this hand I would pass but it is very close for me QJx Axxx KJT xxx and I would not have a problem opening 1d in 3rd or 4th seat but I would still pass in 1st or 2nd.

what would you have done over 2d if rho had passed?? your hand is too strong for a mere 2h bid and not quite strong enough for a game forcing 3h bid (suit is not so great either) so you would have settled for a 2s bid. The purpose of the 2s bid was to gather more information from p as cheaply as possible. You have the same opportunity here by repeating your TOX. If p wants to convert this to penalty you are certainly not going to be embarrased by your defense and if p bids again we will be in much better shape to proceed intelligenlty. There is also one more benefit from a second x if we bid 3h now it is stronger than if we had bid 3h directly over 2s. That means it is forcing to at least the 4 level. A direct 3h is mererly be competitive (around 16 and hopefully at least 6 hearts). Note how well this works with this hand----your second x gets a 3c bid from p you now know they are distributional (at least 54) so the odds of 4h being correct drop to almost nonexistence ---- since p avoided nt they do not have a spde stopper so nt is a poor bet that leaves us with 4d asking p to proceed to 5 if they are not broke and p bids 5d with their ace.

i am lazy sometimes lop also works if clubs 41 or 50 trick 3 top heart (if hearts are 22 hand is over) trick 4 club to J trick 5 dia ruff trick 6 club to Q trick 7 dia ruff trick 8 club to A trick 9 dia ruff trick 10 club trick 11 lead toward the spade K trying for overtrick. the trick here is that if w ruffs in anytime the most we can lose is 1 h and 2s if e ruffs in they can only return a spade (we lose 1 spade) or a dia we ruff and lead toward the spade K for an overtrick

speaking for the minority once again IMO a nice simple 2h reverse for me. Yes yes this hand equates to 20 count and 4s seems to fit the bill nicely but how in the world is p ever going to make a move toward slam with an intermediate hand missing all 4 aces???? By starting with 2h we can learn a great deal more from p next bid and it may then be possible for us to take over with blackwood. It is almost never right to take up huge amounts of space with a slammish looking hand (ie all controls) opposite an unlimited partner. They will rarely make bids that assume you have this type of miracle hand.

our 5 diamonds makes me rule out the possiblity of p having a strong hand with diamonds. There are two basic hand types that generally fit this bidding one is a super strong black suit 2 suiter and the other is a hand with running clubs a dia stopper a spade stopper but no heart stopper. The second type of hand wants to play 3n. We cannot do that and IMO a 3h bid would show a partial stopper. We have 2 problems 1 we are not broke and 2 we have no good fit. We would love to play 4s if p has the strong 2 suiter but if we bid 4s there is no guarantee p looking at the long clubs might play US for long spades. If we were broke I would consider 3s but as it is i will hazard a 4h bid hoping p realizes I am not broke and have no strong opinions about trumps (and no semblance of a heart stopper). If p bids 4s I can pass happily and if they bid 5c I will do the same. This would be a much more irritating problem if i were not long in dia.

while i would not have opened 1s one of the big advantages of opening this hand 1s is that if it had gone p 1s 4h p p i would pass. having passed my shape is too darn good to pass and my defense (for a passed hand) is pretty good. IMO x

i agree with the duck mainly because if p had a singleton heart there is a VERY good chance they would lead it unless their dia holding is such that they do not want to ruff (KQx for ex). declarer might be 0364 0463 and we need at least 2 heart tricks to defeat this. Our best shot at 2 heart tricks would seem to be ducking (p won trick with stiff heart honor you say great) :))))))))

where is my flak jacket?? didnt get much chance to watch this weekend extravaganza sigh but I will be available next sat should I be needed.

2H shows extras but what kind>?? for ex could p bid 2h with say Axxx Axx Kxxxxx void???? I believe so --the problem is how do we continue knowing p might have a weak distrutional hand vs say one with a tad less distribution but extra values???? AQJx JTx KQJxx x since we feel p is trying to show club shortness almost any minimum hand they might have will allow us to make 5d so i think it is reasonable to bid what we think we can make and leave any further indiscretions to p. P should know we dont have the club A for the least we could do was to bid 5c on our way to 5d (I agree 4c should agree to hearts). This will still allow p to move to slam if they have around 3 hcp extra for their 2h bid say AQxx Axx Kxxxxx void (and a club void)

I agree with original pass --- too small % of finding just the right hand but after p xx and rho bids 2s this greatly improves the chances of p not only being at top bit short in spades. Now the :slim: chance of finding p with say xx Axxx xxxx KJx begins to look much more likely and i would have bid 3c over 2s to help p evaluate their hand better. If p tries to sign off I have done all i could.

you bid 4d because you felt slam was possible over a 1s response from p. P has to have a hand near top for last train which is what you were looking for. IMO bid it since you are behind opening bidder and any finesses u might need are a huge favorite to work.

too dangerous to sit still and r/w means we cant afford disaster (x inviting 3d disaster) 3c if p cant move we dont have game worries and we made a good lead director

I am going to hope the opps cant guess how ugly things are and give them a chance to make a mistake: trick 2 I am ruffing the spade trick 3 laying down the heart K. I am hoping for an opp to win the A and continue with a :safe: spade. trick 4 assuming spade back ruff trick 5 club to A trick 6 spade ruff At this point I have scored 3 small trumps and the club A I still have the club K and heart Q and trump A left for 7 tricks and have salvaged some mp. IMO we just cash out and hope for the best. If opps duck heart K at trick 3 I will continue with heart Q (and if that is also ducked we can start looking to make this :))))))))))