Antraxxx

I read somewhere that in an auction that goes (1♣) - p - (1♠) - 2♠, the 2♠ is a natural overcall in spades. Generally, that when the opponents bid two suits, bidding the second one shows the suit naturally. However, why would I want to show a suit naturally when opponents got there first? It's unlikely to find a fit with partner, even if we do find a fit it'll split badly, and if the opponents end in game then I may have just steered them from playing a suit contract with bad splits, myself. So, what's to be gained by showing a suit showed by the opponents, assuming beginner level? (so no psyches) Thanks.

Thanks a lot for your answer.

I though you generally overcall with better suits than this, because partner is likely to lead my suit and it's not really a suit we can develop unless he happens to have a bunch of honors in it. No?

I'm sorry, could you explain why? There's clearly some principle at work here I'm not getting. High card point-wise, our pair has less than the other pair. So while we have a wacky shape, there's no reason to assume we have a chance at anything positive. On the other hand, the opponents most likely have a fit, so it's probably best to force them to do so at a high level. So, my naive reasoning says to open 3D, which describes this hand (I was taught you can relax a bit about pre-empts in the third seat, and this qualifies: right amount of HCP, right suit length, wrong suit quality).Is the idea behind passing to hide the hand distributions from whoever would eventually become declarer? I realise the reasoning above is obvious to most everyone here and was apparently rejected, but I really don't see what makes this hand so special.

Yeah, it just my impression that people never take 2NT as natural. In the real auction I went with 2♣, trying to show an 11+ point hand before going to NT. It ended up working, but I kept wondering if it really was a good idea. At the time it seemed to be because a diamond opening makes it unlikely he'll suddenly try for game in clubs.

Doesn't 1NT limit me to the 7-10 range? And yes, I was afraid of 2NT because I thought he'll think it's some weird convention.

[hv=pc=n&n=st9532hkjdq72caq2&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=pp1d1s]133|200[/hv] First of all, was my first pass okay? Secondly, what should I have bid at that point?

Should he double 1♣ for TO with 7 HCP? Shouldn't he try to find a part-score game when from the bidding it's obvious we have a good fit in at least one major and points split around the lines of 18-22 between the partnerships?

I always play in the relaxed club. Not that it spares me my fair share of bad partners (my best bad beat story so far has to do with an impatient partner conceding a slam with me holding the trump A for the setting trick - and the declarer accepting for whatever reason), but I hope it means people are less mad at me when I make mistakes. In any case, one thing that seems to be in the consensus is that you don't start competing when the opponents have worked their way up to the 3 level (not by preemption, that is). So I should've doubled back on the 1 level and partner's double is more likely to be for penalties because if he was short in clubs he would've doubled immediately. What I'm missing here is why not consider that partner would also need points, either to penalize or to TO after 1♣ at first. 3♣ rebid by opener means he has at least 15, I'm looking at 11. That leaves 14 points. E doubles after 3♣ and S passes, suggesting his hand is weak - he doesn't have great clubs as he removed to diamonds before, he doesn't have 10 points or something near that or he'd have gone to 3NT, so odds are he has something like 2-3 clubs, 3-5 diamonds and something like 3-3 in the majors (I'm assuming he'd have said 1M with a four-card major). So partner has at most four clubs and probably around 7 points, which is not something he wants to penalize with, does he? Could I have drawn the right conclusions from the bidding somehow? Where is the mistake in my thinking?

Yeah, I've been lurking on these forums so I'm aware of the controversy about self-classification. But even if he's full of himself and he's just an experienced beginner, it's still better than I am at this stage. And even if he's not better, for most part it's beneficial to assume he (everyone) is - even if on this particular hand I did semi-okay, I still learned a lot from your answers, that I got by assuming I did something wrong. So thanks everyone!

About the second pass: I was taught to overcall only with a decent suit, even at 1 level, because if the opponents have the points, then my overcall would end up lead directing, and I really don't want P leading into my K8765 spades unless it's no-trump, no? As for the double, I was worried because my AK are in the opponents' suit. So if my partner doesn't have a good suit of his own, we are going to have a bad combined trump holding. I'm probably too timid, I just try to adhere to what I was taught until I understand enough to know when to diverge. So this is one case where I had to diverge, but how could I have known that? I indeed have a maximal hand for a first seat pass, is that what a double tells partner? I admit I'm sometimes at a loss when a passed hand suddenly enters the bidding, I always wonder what's kept them until now if they really have a good suit and/or points.

Before I begin, I don't know what you guys consider beginner/intermediate, but I'm a real beginner. I've tried reading most of the discussions here and I can't figure them out at all. All sorts of abbreviations and conventions that mean nothing to me. So please, try to keep it simple. [hv=pc=n&w=sk8765ht964dak5c3&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1cp1dp3cdp3sppp]133|200[/hv] I think my first two passes are okay. While I have points, I don't have any good suit to show, and I can't call NT with a singleton in their suit. The problem therefore arose after east's double. At the table, I thought that since I have 5-4 in the majors and 10 pts, it's possible east has something similar in terms of strength and shape. So, he sees shortness in their suits, but hasn't enough strength to TO double and hasn't a good enough suit to overcall with. Then, after the opponents keep mucking about, he sees an opportunity to try and get the partscore, as he estimates we have roughly the same amount of points and a good fit in at least one of the majors. So, I took the double out to 3S, which was most likely the reason he stood up and left after the opening lead. His hand was this: [hv=pc=n&e=sjhaq52dj92cqjt98]133|100[/hv] So clearly he meant the double to be penalty, and was annoyed that I could think otherwise. Seeing as he was advanced and I am not, I'm guessing he's right, but how could I have known in advance? Thanks.