han Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Slam is excellent opposite xxxx xx AQxx Kxx, is that too much to ask for? We "know" the diamond finesse is on. I really wanted to bid 4C to say "this is actually a 4H bid but I have clubs too, in case they bid 4S". Unfortunately 4C does not say that, partner is allowed to raise. 3C does not have this problem, partner will rarely jump to 5C. 3C makes it a little easier for the opponents to bid spades, and it doesn't show this kind of distribution. However, it may be the only only way to find slam. I'm not sitting for 4S, so 5C. Partner either has 3 decent spades or 4 small ones, in either case I'd like to pull. Had I bid 4C last round then I could leave this decision to partner, but I really haven't shown my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 I actually prefer 3♣ for much the same reason that Justin likes 4♥. In my experience people always bid 4♠ over 4♥. LHO will figure his partner for some values since you didn't try to push for slam. He will figure you have a bunch of hearts (probably MORE hearts than you actually have), your side probably has a big heart fit (heck you might have a big heart fit by yourself), and bid 4♠ as a two-way shot. On the other hand, 3♣ is usually based on a much stronger hand. It could easily be 5-4 in the suits, or 6-3, or even a flat (5332) hand wanting partner to declare notrump with a spade stop. Often 3♣ shows in the vicinity of 19 hcp in pure values. I don't think LHO will be eager to bid over the 3♣ call, and when you back into 4♥ on a possible misfit auction after partner bids 3♥ on doubleton he may not bid 4♠ over that either. I also don't think it's that far-fetched that this hand will play better in clubs. If partner holds four weak spades (as seems likely), the repeated spade tap will be very painful if we play in a 6-2 heart fit on a 4-1 break. If partner holds four clubs it's easy to imagine clubs being several tricks better. It is strange that spades are not being bid... odds that partner forgot and bid 1♠ with five spades anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 I think 4C would be interpreted as an auto splinter by most expert players. I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 ADDED...I did vote considering a 1♥ opening bid... but... Just open 3!C MisIry.. hehehehe... See higher up for the hand I proposed for pard. When you complete the description with 3H over 3D (that is correct, is it not?) can (should) he pass with that hand? Jxxx, xx, KQxx, xxx versus--, KQJTxx, xx, AQJTx Realistically the Misiry auction will be... 3♣ - 4♦4♥ - pass Where 4♦ raises the preempt, and 4♥ is now compressed ♥/♣ two siuter with 3 or 4 losers. With all that !D stuff, not going to push to 5♣. If responder is not willing to push the preempt, 3♣ = 3♦3♥ - Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 I guess Ben is chuckling in his MisIry......he has no such problems. I just hate it when you have to justify your (losing) action with " I played you for ..... ) and pard just looks at you and says "Why not just let me have my say, I had a bid before you took away all my options." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Partner's x has warned us we may wasted spade values. So will settle for 5 level now. Are we not glad we let p know we have a huge h and club hand now to help them reevaluate their holdings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 me i just bid 4♥ and if its wrong on to the next hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Part III I thought this was a good example of tactics vs science. To me - and the poll confirms this - is that its a 2 horse race between 3♣ and 4♥. For 4♥ to fail, the following must happen: pard can't have A♥ or the K♣, or a doubleton and hearts have to be 4-2 or worse. I'll take my chances in hearts, thank you. Sorry, underbids like 2♣ and 2♥ accomplish nothing, nor does 3♥. Is it really asking so much for pard to cover one of our 4 losers? The best thing about 3♣ is that it allows pard to evaluate his hand better. He will love the A♥ and the K♣, like pointed aces, and write off lower pointed suit honors. But 3♣ lets LHO in one level lower, which may be crucial. As long as we are bashing this into 4♥, lets put the pressure on them right away. Pard actually had: AT9x, x, QJTx, 9xxx. Of course I pulled the double, and quietly went -1 (they butchered the defense) in 5♣. To show how bad they were - the pair was getting into 'philospohical' arguments over what is the correct card to play from a small doubleton when pard leads and ace from A-K. They play UD Attitude, but standard count. We really get rich in 4♠ - I think its -800, although with the K♣ off, we have the entries for the tap. If the K♣ is in the pocket, 4♠ goes for a zillion. In my partnerships, we don't autosplinter in these auctions. Hands like: Axx, AKJTxx, AQx, x are opened 2♣. So a 4♣ call really can't exist. I think you can tell where I'm going with this. I think the best call of all is 4♣, if its agreed to be fitted. It tells pard where our values are and makes LHO take a call at the 4 level. If pard THEN cracks 4♠, we will sit happily, knowing we have described our hand to a tee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ok confused I cannot bid 1s with AT9x of spades over 1H? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 (edited) huh? I think it shows if you dont show spades when you have spades that partner will pull your Xs. I bet he forgot, because this is not like a 1H X 1N bid, this is like a 1H X 1S bid. Edit: oops mike said it first :P Edited September 12, 2005 by Jlall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 huh? I think it shows if you dont show spades when you have spades that partner will pull your Xs. I bet he forgot, because this is not like a 1H X 1N bid, this is like a 1H X 1S bid. Edit: oops mike said it first :) No he didnt forget - 1♠ (1N) isn't terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 I came to this thread late. I like a 4H bid. Its practical and gives little away. It also doesn't search for the Holy Grail. If you "know" that slam is on opposite AQ of Ds and the K of C, then have you never played anyone who doubles on AKJx Ax Jxxx xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 In case anyone is curious - to show spades, pard makes a redouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 I came to this thread late. I like a 4H bid. Its practical and gives little away. It also doesn't search for the Holy Grail. If you "know" that slam is on opposite AQ of Ds and the K of C, then have you never played anyone who doubles on AKJx Ax Jxxx xxx Of course I don't "know" that slam is on, but let's say it is more than 50% that the doubler has the king, also because her partner couldn't scrape up a bid over 1S while they have 9 or 10 spades. Phil, I don't think that the 1S call is reasonable. These are 4 good spades and most importantly, the hand is not balanced. So it is a double misdescription. I assume that responder can show spades by redoubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Phil, I don't think that the 1S call is reasonable. These are 4 good spades and most importantly, the hand is not balanced. So it is a double misdescription. I assume that responder can show spades by redoubling. Agree, why misdescribe your hand when you can describe it correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 The initial explanation was 1NT denying 4 good spades (if he has 4). AT9x seems to be pretty good to me, considering the possibility of S in the doublers hand....... With the hand described, AT9x, x, QJTx, 9xxx and a rebid of, say, C or H, how should this hand continue? (I gather that the doubler remained quiet?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 I think AT9x is borderline to be a decent suit. But maybe I'm just carrying over keeping the partnership morale 4 days later LOL. Many of you are correct - there isn't a whole lot of downside to showing spades here. Oddly enough, a redouble shuts up my LHO and I can play 4♥, which will be a gain. The bozos at the other table played a partscore, since the two hands 'only' have 13 opposite 7. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 lol...13 HCP...nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABadPlayer Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 I agree with Justin and Hannie that a 4H bid is practical and unrevealing. I wouldn't object to strongly to a 3C bid, but I don't see a lot of benefit to it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 4♥ is too unrevealing, opponents are having fit and strenght, you won't play 4♥, and partner is gonna have to make a decision at the 5 or 6 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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