Team games

[Al_U_Card]

Altho this is perhaps tourney territory, have you given any thought to allowing a room for groups to form teams and play in ladder-type competitions or Swiss type competitions?

[uday]

I dont know much about ladders

 

We will implement swiss teams some day

 

Someone suggested allowing people to signup as a team and allow teams to invite each others to matches if the team was all online. I like it and will extend the Lobby->play->help-me-find-a-game screen to support this (this is on my near-term to do list)

[Al_U_Card]

Superb! You guys are the best. ;)

[pigpenz]

yes it would be sort of nice to may start some sort of swiss team league or something along those lines

[uday]

If the interest level were higher, I'd do something sooner; my next bit of code is probably going to be an enhancement of lobby->play->help-me-find-a-game to make it easier to get a random team match going.

 

My instinct is that there isnt all that much interest in swiss teams or KOs, contrary opinions welcome

[inquiry]

My instinct is that there isnt all that much interest in swiss teams or KOs, contrary opinions welcome

I am extremely interested in SWISS TEAMS... knockout teams... so-so. I would even enjoy BAM with swiss teams. :-)

[Guest Jlall]

my next bit of code is probably going to be an enhancement of lobby->play->help-me-find-a-game to make it easier to get a random team match going.

This is a great idea. Often I have to spam the lobby for opps and I'm sure it annoys everyone, it is also annoying to have to do.

[jikl]

I am guessing that there is more interest in these type of matches among us on the forums than in the general populace of BBO. So then it comes down to a matter of priority.

 

Sean

[Al_U_Card]

I am guessing that there is more interest in these type of matches among us on the forums than in the general populace of BBO. So then it comes down to a matter of priority.

 

Sean

Unfortunately, quite likely.

 

Any chance of a separate room for those who want to play with bots? <_<

[uday]

Why would you want a separate room? I'm sure F will add filters to filter out the bots at some point. The deals are already separated. Do you want to just avoid the visual clutter in the table lists?

[Al_U_Card]

Are you a mind reader too?...lol In fact I have a no roller on my mouse and get dizzy from flitting back and forth to find pards.

[shoeless]

I think it would be folly to assume there wouldn't be high interest in Swiss teams et al in the general BBO population. I am betting you will be very surprised at the instant take. However, I do find that the process for setting up and populating a team match with players might be smoother. I would love to have a facility that allowed me to have a seperate list for match players that I have placed on the list and be able to pm them as a group inviting them to a match - and then they can simply right click to grab an available seat in the match. I can dream. See you at the Sunday mroning BAM's

[chicken]

i think that team matches in any form would be used even more frequently if there was an option in the help me find a game menue. in my case team matches collide with my preference (like many do) to turn off the lobbychat, so i dont get the invitations.

[Guest Jlall]

I know it isn't really the same but one of the reasons Xbox has been so successful is because Xbox live makes multiplayer modes very simple. You just click and you can join a group of your peers for a match.

[bucmar]

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=9826

[joker_gib]

Every step to improve team matches creation would definitively be great ! :)

 

Alain

[McBruce]

I think Swiss Teams could become EXTREMELY popular on BBO, nearly as popular as ACBL Regional and NABC knockouts are -- with some fairly major additions to the software. I don't know how feasible it is to implement something like this. I suppose it would be possible for a "Commissioner" to oversee it all, but it would be a lot of work that software could do quite easily. Here's what I envision:

 

--any chat room can be used as a Swiss Team's team registration page: get all of your team members (maximum eight, to make it easier to find players to play) together at one time in a chat room, the team captain clicks a button, everyone in the room clicks a button to agree to be members of that team, and if there are at least six members agreeing (four or five would make it hard to get everyone online at the same time), the team is registered.

 

--chat rooms can also be used to change the team captain, add a new member to a team or delete a member (the captain and three other members must be present and agree to the change).

 

--the time you register determines which "timezone" you are in, with the 24 hour clock being divided into four six-hour periods, so that your preferred time is never more than three hours from a compromise time between your team and an opponent's preferred time. No BBO member can be on two teams in the same timezone, but can participate on multiple teams in different timezones.

 

--once you register, you are placed at the bottom of the list for your timezone. New rounds start each calendar month in groups of six teams. (The lowest two groups will be 4 and 3, 5 and 3, 5 and 4, or 6 and 4.) Each team must play one 12-board match against each of its divisional opponents during the following month. Each team captain is responsible for contacting the other team captains and arranging a suitable date and time. Once both captains agree on a date and time, the match is scheduled and must be played on that date.

 

--matches are scored in IMPs and the division standings are kept in victory points. Barometer matches are not allowed.

 

--if there are only three members of a team logged on at the scheduled time of a match, or during a match, a random sub must be used. If there are only two members of a team logged on, no boards can be played and if a delay of more than 15 minutes results, the offending team loses by default.

 

--unplayed and unscheduled matches are scheduled by the BBO software for a random date and a compromise time within the timezone when there are seven days left in the month. Such matches cannot be rescheduled. This, and the provision below that says that teams that are at fault in not completing their matches go down to the bottom, forces team captains to get their matches scheduled early.

 

--if a match is not completed, the offending side gets zero victory points (if both sides do not show, both get zero VPs). The non-offending side gets the greater of these possibilities:

a) 60% of the possible Victory Points

b) the non-offending side's average VPs in matches played

c) the inverse of offending side's average VPs in matches played

d) the VPs based on the score when a partially completed match was stopped

Options b) and c) are not finalized until both sides have completed all of their matches.

 

--participants agree to Full Disclosure of agreements and posted convention cards for each pair. Emergency subs are limited to BB-Basic or BB-Advanced.

 

--disputes over explanations and other things: perhaps there is a way we can set up a forum here to debate these questions, hear testimony from both sides, and even vote on the best resolution, or whether the plaintiff has no case and should be penalized in VPs for wasting our time!

 

--at the end of the month, when the final standings are in, in each division:

a) all teams are re-ranked from top to bottom within their division, 1 to 6, 7 to 12, etc.

b) teams which won their division are accoladed on the BBO website and in the news window.

c) newly signed up teams are added to the bottom of the list in the order that they signed up.

d) relegation and promotion: two teams from each division are promoted and two relegated. (The exceptions are the top and bottom divisions, from which three teams go down or up.) In each middle division, the top team moves up two divisions, the second team moves up one division, the sixth team moves down two divisions, and the fifth team moves down one division.

e) teams which did not complete their schedules and are the offending side in at least one match are dropped to the bottom, below even the newly signed up teams.

f) All teams are re-ranked into new divisions for the next month, and play begins again.

 

--if feasible, semifinals and final between the winners of each timezone could be played each month.

 

OK, rain down the comments.... :)

[hrothgar]

OK, rain down the comments.... :P

There seem to be two different conversations going on:

 

1. What set of rules is apropriate for ladder type teams

2. Should the BBO software be modified to support Swiss Teams

 

From my perspective, organizers should feel free to design whatever ladder format that they feel like. The rules that McBruce suugests seem reasonable

 

I have no problem with adding Swiss Teams to BBO, however, there are a lot of features that I would prioritize a head of it. (Its hard enough to get players to sit still for a 24 board tournament, let alone a real swiss match)

[uday]

FWIW, I am testing a minor tweak to 'Help me find a game' that allows you to say you want to play in a team game; when 8 such players show up, a short team match (tentatively 4 boards) is scheduled.

 

I also like very much the notion of registering a team by name, and offering up the whole team as an opponent to another such team if both teams are online. I think I'll try that next. Unclear how the teams should be registered (ie, who defines TeamX as a+b+c+d ? Is permissioning required? How long will this definition last? can any of a/b/c/d withdraw from the team definition ? )

 

 

I need to re-read McBruce's post !

[mink]

... Unclear how the teams should be registered (ie, who defines TeamX as a+b+c+d ? ...

hi Uday,

 

about 18 months ago I suggested that a normal main bridge club table should be taken to form a team for a team game. The request for an opponent team should be implemented by a table option.

 

Karl

[McBruce]

From my perspective, organizers should feel free to design whatever ladder format that they feel like. The rules that McBruce suugests seem reasonable.

To clarify, I wouldn't mind running something like the league I described -- if I had the time. The trouble is, I do not. I do, however, think that the BBO software could eventually be modified to provide for this sort of competition. Then we wouldn't need a moderator or commissioner -- although no doubt there would need to be some method of resolving the inevitable disputes.

[Guest Jlall]

FWIW, I am testing a minor tweak to 'Help me find a game' that allows you to say you want to play in a team game; when 8 such players show up, a short team match (tentatively 4 boards) is scheduled.

 

I also like very much the notion of registering a team by name, and offering up the whole team as an opponent to another such team if both teams are online. I think I'll try that next. Unclear how the teams should be registered (ie, who defines TeamX as a+b+c+d ? Is permissioning required? How long will this definition last? can any of a/b/c/d withdraw from the team definition ? )

 

 

I need to re-read McBruce's post !

Also, let people sign up as partnerships, not just individuals or teams. That would be useful I think.

[ritong]

i m very happy this topic comes up, because i have for long a desire to see the teamgame structure evoluate some in the sense of comfort.

thirty years ago, it worked that way : people arriving to the club and interested in TG contacted a specialized host, who held a list . when 8+ ppl were gathered , two captains were designated, and drew (with a cardpack, the biggest card choosing first) their teammates.

what i imagine for the site is a kind of specialized chatroom, with an access to lobby to contact people directly or via lobby chat, and a board with eight places to register people, either by themselves or via the organizer.

settings managed by organizer, people leaving for a reason or another (say disconnection...) easily replaceable by other persons present in the chatroom, etc..

believe everybody gets the spirit of this stuff.

and when the eight boxes are filled, avanti ! on decision of the orga, for example (launching button ), or under the actual form of invitation sending, to avoid " hacking" of non-aware people B)

think every necessary features already exist, and convinced everybody would appreciate such facilities..is often hell to set up a TG currently.

[shoeless]

Amen Ritong - it is often hell!! It seems to me when the Aussies held team training here on BBO that used a chat room to gather and the organizer (mrdct) assigned seats at the tables, but not sure - maybe he can enlighten us.

[paulg]

One cautionary note on the enthusiasm for ladders. Although everyone is enthusiastic at the start, it takes a lot of work to run a team on a ladder. I ran a team for four years on the Riko OKBridge Ladder and despite have 18 players on the team often struggled to get a commitment from four of them. The BBO Poland ladder/tournament struggled to get a large number of teams to complete matches, despite their excellent organisation, rules and structure.

 

In addition, running the ladder takes time - especially as the BBO international mix of players is likely to call for more rulings and director calls than the more homogeneous (systemwise) OKB environment.

 

As Richard and others have said, I think ladders and Swiss Teams are a fairly low priority compared to making team games more accessible. Currently team games typically run for 8-10 boards, suggesting that anything that takes longer is difficult to arrange. Looking at the pairs tournament, there are few that are as long as a Swiss Teams would need to be and we've all seen the sub calls during these.

 

Cheers

 

Paul