Inviting after 1m-1M-2M

[han]

A painful recent accident while playing with a regular forum member induces me to state a Theorem. I can by no means prove this theorem, but I think that it is not far off. Improvements are welcome.

 

Suppose your partner opens 1m (a minor), you respond 1M (a major) and partner raises to 2M.

 

 

Theorem part 1: You should never try for game with a balanced 9-count or less when you only hold 4 trumps.

 

Theorem part 2: You should only try for game with a balanced 10-count and 4 trumps when the auction has seriously improved your hand.

 

 

An example of an auction that has seriously improved your hand is 1C-1H-2H when you hold xx KJ10x Axx Q10xx. This is a balanced 10-count by traditional point count, but the hand has gotten much better than that. I would consider 3C (especially if partner can pass this with a minimal 3-card raise), although I don't know if that's right.

 

Of course, the exact Theorem should depend on how light you open (and on how well you play the hands). The lighter your partner opens, the more conservative you should be in your raises. I intended the Theorem for "average" opening style, whatever that may be. I decided to ignore Vulnerability and form of scoring, to keep it simple.

[1eyedjack]

Of course, the exact Theorem should depend on how light you open

... and on the range of your 1NT opening bid (and hence what hand strength might be contained in the 1m opener when balanced).

 

My other message at

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=87862

is of some relevance here.

 

In general I would agree with the theorem if you are playing a strong (ie 15-17) 1NT opener. Odds are that opener has a weak 1NT opener on the auction, opposite which you would not invite with a balanced 9 count and rarely with 10 even with a guaranteed fit.

 

The problem argues somewhat for playing a weak 1N opener, so that opener's "normal" minimum playing strength given the raise is roughly the same whether opener is balanced or unbalanced - (in either case better than a weak 1N opener), when a game try with a 9 count is safer.

[mila85]

Of course, the exact Theorem should depend on how light you open

... and on the range of your 1NT opening bid (and hence what hand strength might be contained in the 1m opener when balanced).

 

My other message at

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=87862

is of some relevance here.

 

In general I would agree with the theorem if you are playing a strong (ie 15-17) 1NT opener. Odds are that opener has a weak 1NT opener on the auction, opposite which you would not invite with a balanced 9 count and rarely with 10 even with a guaranteed fit.

 

The problem argues somewhat for playing a weak 1N opener, so that opener's "normal" minimum playing strength given the raise is roughly the same whether opener is balanced or unbalanced - (in either case better than a weak 1N opener), when a game try with a 9 count is safer.

Playing weak nt 10HCP are GF values:)

 

x Axxx Axx Axxxx

xxxx KQxx xxx Kx

[inquiry]

Let's look at standard american auctions where the bidding has gone...

 

1m - 1M

2M

 

and

 

1m - 1M

3M

 

What is the "standard" for 2M raise (lowest we can guess, an absolute minimum opening bid, but how strong is your strongest hand?). How about the 3M raise? Clearly on the 3M raise you must be very narrrowly definded. Why? Because your partner has to decide rather to bid game or not, right now. He either passes or accepts game try.

 

Since the impliication in Hannie's post is that with 10 HCP you might actually accept game, I think we can assume that 15 hcp has to be included in the 2M raise, and maybe even higher. How much higher?

 

What I like is very esoteric. I prefer, 1m-1M-2M to be "weak NT" stregnth. Up to about 13 hcp (I open 1NT with 14) if balanced. To put a face on this, say 11-13 balanced, and up to maybe 14 points if semiblanced or translate this 26-28 (29) ZAR points (with 29 I look for other features to decide, like do I acutally have four card support). I like 1m-1M-3M to be much more agreesive than most people, it always includes distibution (else I would have opened 1NT), and it shows (29)30-32 ZAR points This shows a very narrow range, esentially around 15-16 "points" counting the before mentioned distribution.

 

Playing this way, you not only pass 1m-1M-2M with 9 hcp, you pass it with 10 as well. In fact, you pass it with most 11's. Of course you are saying, if your 3M is so limited, you will have to overbid, or how do you handle hands with more points, than the 3M jump but without enough to FORCE to game. The "solution" is I use 2NT for stronger fitting hands... with artificial responder rebids.

 

A couple of issues here.

1) 1m-1M-2M you will not over-reach to 3M or 4M as much as you do otherwise.

2) 1m-1M-2M makes it easier for opponents to enter the auction, but 2M includes a lot of balanced hands with 3 card support and responder can have some significant values and pass, which means such balancing might run into problems for them. I have passed this 2M raise with 12 hcp (unusual for that many but hand had negative features).

3) 1m-1M-3M is very narrowly defined, and preempt the auction on hands where you have FIT and DISTRIBUTION, come on you were never selling out short of the three level on these hands anyway, admit it.

4) 1m-1M-2NT = opener can make not only this game try, but responder rejects game try with 3C, so opener can make a SECOND game try. So in effect you get three ranges of game tries with fit. The immediate 3M bid, the 2NT and when partenr bids 3C, signoff in 3M, the 2NT bid, and when partner bid 3C, ask him to reconsider with 3D.

[Winstonm]

If the structure is a strong NT structure, I'd say you are dead on right - the raise to 2 of the M should state a hand is held that is less than a jump rebid value so it is in the 11-14 range with 3 or 4 trump.

 

With 4 trump only, you have to factor in the prospect of playing NT when partner has raised on 3-card support, so the invite needs to be more in the 11-12 point ranges. With 10 you would want a 5 card suit and with 9 a 6 card suit to have some safety from failing at a 9 trick contract when partner cannot accept a game try.

 

Winston

[Guest Jlall]

with 10 and 5 trumps dont you normally just bid game? with 9 and 6 trumps I really think you just bid game :)

[Winstonm]

with 10 and 5 trumps dont you normally just bid game? with 9 and 6 trumps I really think you just bid game :)

Well, I'm only on page 3 of "Play of the Hand" by Watson. :rolleyes:

[Fluffy]

with 6 trumps you just bid game, but with 5? take a closer look at your hand before :).

 

looks extrrange to me that I am less agressive here, and bare in mind that my 2M raises promise 4 cards

[Guest Jlall]

well obviously I was exaggerating a bit :) I would not jump to game with QJ QJ QJ J

[pclayton]

Sort of related to this thread:

 

Here's a quandary I'm running into. Assume a 12-14 NT and 5 card majors. Easy enough to make a single raise on the following hand types:

 

1) 11-13/14 (ostensibly 7 losers) unbalanced with 3 or 4 trump

2 ) 15-16 balanced or unbalanced with 3 trump and all with 4 (usually balanced). A real prime 4-4-3-2 15-16 can qualify for a jump raise.

 

We use 2N as a checkback after the raise to clarify # of trump and relative strength.

 

What I really want to do is develop a 'Cole' type 2♣ rebid where we can load the 15-16 3 card raise (as well as many other types of hands). I've developed a response structure that works fine after 1♦ - 1M - 2♣, but the sequences get real bulky after 1♣ - 1M - 2♦.

 

The answer seems to be some sort of T-Walsh structure where we can jump into relay-type bidding after 1♣ - 1♦ (♥'s) and spin it off from there.

[POJC]

We use 2N as a checkback after the raise to clarify # of trump and relative strength.

This is IMO a good idea, which i've seen described b4. Can still be combined with trial style bids at 3 level.

 

We don't raise to 2M with balanced 3 card trump do we?

Eg. a good raise to 2H is

x Kxx KQxx Exxxx

[Flame]

well obviously I was exaggerating a bit :D I would not jump to game with QJ QJ QJ J

JXXXX QJX QJX QJ

 

To the question, my 2M is 12-14 balance.

With unbalanced and nice 6 losers i would normally bid 3M.

If the support could be 3 cards, u need to bid more contervatively with only 4 majors, i bid natural invite 2nt with no less then 11 so with most bal 10 and 4 trumps i will have to pass.