missing the target

[jillybean]

[hv=d=e&v=a&n=saq4ht74da842cq65&w=skh8653dkj653c982&e=shakj92dt9cakt743&s=sjt9876532hqdq7cj]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     1♥    1♠

 2♥    3♠    4♥    4♠

 Pass  Pass  5♥    Pass

 Pass  Dbl   Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

I seem to be either bidding 4♠ when I should bid 1♠, or visa versa. Here I overcalled 1♠ looking at Q, Qx, J and missing top 3 honors.

I think I am (again) misunderstanding a 4x opening or overcall as showing a strong hand rather than pre-emptive.

 

Can someone set me straight.

 

ty

jb

[coyot]

My rule for overcalls/preempts would be:

 

Bid by preempt when I'm not interested in any extra information from partner, I do not posses good defensive values AND my preempt will make life harder for opps.

 

Here, 1♠ seems like a bad bid... You don't give a jackpoop to what will your partner say, you're going to bid 4♠ in any case, so bid it immediately.

Furthermore, 1♠ bid looks like 5-6card with some values, which causes partner to double, seeing 9card spade suit (and therefore hoping for 1 spade trick, diamond ace and some good values that you have promised by not preempting with your spade 6card.

 

I imagine that you promised something like KJxxxx-x-Kxx-AJx.

 

If the hand is any weaker, 2♠ jump overcall is better. If it is one king stronger, you will still bid the same way. Even with KJxxxx-x-KQx-AKx you would most likely overcall 1♠ and then bid 4♠.

 

As for strong overcalls: If you happen to have a hand that wants to play 4♠ to make, you can easily start with a double and THEN bidding 4♠ over whatever bid reaches you from opps or partner.

 

If you need 2 tricks from partner, you can overcall 1♠ and see if he has anything to say - if not, bid 3♠ on your own...

[pbleighton]

"...4x opening or overcall as showing a strong hand rather than pre-emptive"

 

IMO, a 4M call shows a hand which has lots of strength if the contract is in your suit, but not much in the way of defense. Like this one. It is really a perfect 4S overcall, because slam is very unlikely, and if the opps can set it, they probably have a game.

 

Peter

[Walddk]

As a rule of thumb as far as pre-empting is concerned: bid as if you would have if you had been dealer. Would you have pre-empted in first seat? Yes. Should you do the same in second seat after an opening? Yes!

 

4♠ would be a popular choice although you, in theory, have 7 losers, but holding a 9-card suit breaks almost any rule (counting only 2 losers in the spade suit is a fair shot).

 

Isn't there a risk that you may go for 1100 if partner can't produce just one trick? There is, but if that is the case, the opponents must be cold for slam - a score that will yield more than the 1100 you concede.

 

When pre-empting partner should not expect just one trick on defence, whereas a simple overcall (1♠) shows a much better hand. Does that sound like a contradiction? It may, but another good rule is: "quick in, quick out". With bad cards, bid as high as you can "afford" according to your agreement. The higher you bid, the weaker you are. Your hand is only any good offensively.

 

If you had overcalled 4♠, your partner should not double them in 5♥. He will most likely bid 5♠, and then you will get doubled. No big deal; it will cost 200.

 

Yes, with open cards EW can make 6♥, but I don't think they will bid it over 5♠, and if they do, they will have to make it first.

 

Roland

[han]

Absolutely agree with the above posts. As for overcalling 1S, that either shows an opening hand or, if the hand is lighter, a good suit, usually five cards. I would overcall 1S with all of these hands:

 

AKJ10xxx

x

AQx

xx

 

KQJxx

xxx

x

Kxxx

 

A10xxx

x

AQxx

xxx

 

AKJ10x

xxx

xx

xxx

 

But not with these hands:

 

Jxxxx

xxx

Ax

Axx

 

(pass)

 

QJ10xxx

x

KQx

xxx

 

(Bid 2S)

 

AKJ10xxx

x

AQx

Ax

 

(Double first)

 

J1098xxxxx

Q

Qx

J

 

(Bid 4S <_<)