"rule of 18" vs "psych"

[Free]

"Rule of 18" is a rule used at most tournaments and clubs around here. According to my knowledge, the international rules mention psychs but they do not say anything about "rule of 18" or such. Therefor I wonder what rule is stronger.

 

So, am I allowed to psych despite this rule with a 1-level bid?

 

2 example hands:

[hv=s=skxxxhjxxdaxxxcxx]133|100|opening 1♠ in 3rd seat while playing 5-card Majors[/hv]

[hv=s=skxxxhjxxdaxxxcxx]133|100|opening 1♠ in 3rd seat while playing 5-card Majors[/hv]

 

EDIT: "rule of 18" means you're not allowed to open at 1-level if "your HCP+length of your 2 longest suits < 18". It's a RULE, not an agreement (it would be a stupid agreement imo)

[mr1303]

As I understand it, the rule of 18 is the minimum you can have as a partnership agreement to open.

 

A psyche, by definition, must be against partnership agreement.

 

So the two rules do not appear to be in conflict, which I think is what you're suggesting.

 

Hand 1: A rule of 16 opener. A partnership agreement to open such hands is illegal, but wouldn't, IMO, be considered a psyche.

 

Hand 2: An out-and-out psyche.

[Free]

I know what psychs are, but this is a matter of regulations. I'm not stupid you know... B)

[mr1303]

Look, I tried my best to interpret and answer your question. If my answer isn't good enough for you, then let someone else have a go. I don't need to be spoken to like that.

[luis]

Rule of 18 can be used to determine that by agreement you need to have the mentioned 18 for a 1 level opening bid in your system in 1ST or 2ND seat.

The WBF does not use rule of 18 and instead requires a minimum of 8HCP for 1 level opening bids.

Even when rule of 18 is enforced you are still allowed to open whatever you want as long as pd expects you to follow the rule.

 

Luis

[jillybean]

I know what psychs are, but this is a matter of regulations. I'm not stupid you know... B)

Lets not start on this topic :)

[david_c]

Free, can you give us the precise wording of this "rule of 18" you are referring to? It seems rather hard to answer the question otherwise.

 

At first sight, I'd agree with Mark. But we're both living in EBU-land, where the regulation is explicit: "The minimum agreement for opening 1-of-a-suit is Rule of 18 ..." So for us, there's no problem. Maybe the situation is different elsewhere.

[Free]

rule of 18 is a rule made up by the Belgian Bridge Federation. It's used almost everywhere except top level.

 

"Count the lengths of your 2 longest suits together with your HCP. If you reach less than 18, you're not allowed to open at 1-level."

 

International bridge rules however state that you're allowed to lie about shape and/or strength on purpose, as long as it's not a partnership agreement.

[david_c]

"Count the lengths of your 2 longest suits together with your HCP.  If you reach less than 18, you're not allowed to open at 1-level."

Ugh. I would interpret this as banning psyches. :)

[mink]

In the German system regulations, the rule of 18 is used to define HUM: if your system states that a 1-level opening maybe will not comply to the rule of 18, this is a HUM system and may be only used in high-level tournaments.

 

However, this does not say anything about psyches, which of course may break any rules as long as they are neither implicity or explicitly part of the system.

 

Only for club-level tourneys psyches are prohibited in first and second seat, and here again the rule of 18 is used to define what a psyche is.

 

Psyches are not restricted in any tourneys above club level.

 

Karl

[ochinko]

Just a funny example from two days ago. Indy, IMPs, opps are vuln, we are not. LHO deals and passes, partner passes, RHO bids 1C. My hand is:

 

AKJ10

AQ7

KQ6

963

 

I double with the intention to bid NT, or cue-bid in clubs after partner bids some suit. LHO bids 1H though, which is passed to me. I didn't know what to do, so I doubled again. LHO passes, partner goes to 1NT. I figure him with a Kxx in hearts, and nothing else, so I pass. Partner had:

 

98

K108

A832

A1075

 

Instead of arguing with my partner, I congratulated RHO who opened 1C in the worst vulns with:

 

Q653

652

754

J42

 

Partner was apalled though, and called the TD. :)

 

Petko

[pbleighton]

This is a somewhat unusual example of an area where the ACBL is actually more liberal than some European jurisdictions. You can open any 8 count - Q32-Q32-Q32-Q432 is fine. OTOH, you can't open AK109876-1098765 at the one level.

 

Psyches are fine, but if you play a system which opens 8 counts routinely, and regularly "psyche" good 6 and 7 counts in the first two seats, you might get in trouble. I suspect this may be the case in other jursdictions, as well.

 

Peter

[LH2650]

This is a somewhat unusual example of an area where the ACBL is actually more liberal than some European jurisdictions.  You can open any 8 count - Q32-Q32-Q32-Q432 is fine. OTOH, you can't open AK109876-1098765 at the one level.

 

You might find The Bridge World June 2005 editorial of interest. The ACBL regulation is supposedly based on Law 40D, but is actually in conflict with it. A competent director should allow a 1 level opening on your second hand, but might look skeptically at your first one.

[hrothgar]

In the German system regulations, the rule of 18 is used to define HUM: if your system states that a 1-level opening maybe will not comply to the rule of 18, this is a HUM system and may be only used in high-level tournaments.

Is there any reason why the German Bridge Federation has decided to corrupt standard vocabulary? The expression "HUM" has an explicit definition. Its quite annoying when a WBF affiliated organization decides to recycle the same expression...

[pigpenz]

Bridge World has been getting on the ACBL's case cause they have been trying to regulate what an opening bid is. They keep pressing the WBF to not cave in to the ACBL. I agree with BW. Say you want to open 1♥ on aqxxxxxx and out, its a suit has length and you either sow the seeds of disaster or not, but its natural. As long as your opps let you know they are playing something like that is fine with me.

 

So where does a forcing pass system come into play with this???

I guess its the level of bridge and the organization that determines this.

What we here in USA need to remember is that the ACBL is selling a product, so they are trying to protect not so good players from obtuse systems or they wont pay to play in their events.

[mink]

In the German system regulations, the rule of 18 is used to define HUM: if your system states that a 1-level opening maybe will not comply to the rule of 18, this is a HUM system and may be only used in high-level tournaments.

Is there any reason why the German Bridge Federation has decided to corrupt standard vocabulary? The expression "HUM" has an explicit definition. Its quite annoying when a WBF affiliated organization decides to recycle the same expression...

The term used is "Hochkünstliches System", which translates literally to "highly artificial system". I called it HUM in my post, as this is a term well known in the English speaking environment, and I thought it means the same. Your post suggests that it is not the same, and probably you are right. I am sorry for the confusion.

 

Karl

[Finch]

rule of 18 is a rule made up by the Belgian Bridge Federation. It's used almost everywhere except top level.

 

"Count the lengths of your 2 longest suits together with your HCP. If you reach less than 18, you're not allowed to open at 1-level."

 

International bridge rules however state that you're allowed to lie about shape and/or strength on purpose, as long as it's not a partnership agreement.

I am also confused.

 

I know of no regulation that says what you have quoted, never mind seeing it "almost everywhere".

 

As has already been pointed out, in the EBU you aren't allowed to have an agreement to open on less than rule of 18 (rule of 19 at level 3), but you are certainly allowed to psyche in any seat.

[Echognome]

If the question is "am I allowed to psych?" the answer should be "Yes. Of course you are since it is within the laws of bridge to psych." I'm assuming that the Belgium Bridge Federation has to follow those rules the same as every other.

 

If the question is whether a certain bid is considered a psych, then it might be more difficult to answer. A psych is a gross and deliberate misrepresentation (I hope I have that wording correct). It is difficult to call a natural 1♠ opening bid on

 

♠ AQ109xx

♥ xx

♦ x

♣ J109x

 

a psych even though it does not meet the rule of 18. However, I'm not an experienced enough TD to answer the second question of what constitutes a psyche and what does not.

[pbleighton]

"You might find The Bridge World June 2005 editorial of interest. The ACBL regulation is supposedly based on Law 40D, but is actually in conflict with it. A competent director should allow a 1 level opening on your second hand, but might look skeptically at your first one."

 

Do you have a link to this article?

 

The directors I have seen rule on this issue have always taken the attitude that all 8 counts are OK under the GCC (a pretty straightforward reading), and I believe at least two of them to be quite competent. I have never tested the second hand scenario. I can believe that there are directors who would permit the second hand.

 

Peter

[david_c]

If the question is "am I allowed to psych?" the answer should be "Yes. Of course you are since it is within the laws of bridge to psych."  I'm assuming that the Belgium Bridge Federation has to follow those rules the same as every other.

Far too optimistic ;) There are plenty of examples of local regulations which are contrary to the Laws (or, at best, are very creative interpretations). I seem to remember that the Italians ban openings on 7HCP, including psyches. Maybe the Belgian "rule of 18" works in a similar way.

[Free]

rule of 18 is a rule made up by the Belgian Bridge Federation.  It's used almost everywhere except top level.

 

"Count the lengths of your 2 longest suits together with your HCP.  If you reach less than 18, you're not allowed to open at 1-level."

 

International bridge rules however state that you're allowed to lie about shape and/or strength on purpose, as long as it's not a partnership agreement.

I am also confused.

 

I know of no regulation that says what you have quoted, never mind seeing it "almost everywhere".

 

As has already been pointed out, in the EBU you aren't allowed to have an agreement to open on less than rule of 18 (rule of 19 at level 3), but you are certainly allowed to psyche in any seat.

it's a LOCAL rule in BELGIUM, so "everywhere" means "everywhere in Belgium". However, your reply helps a lot ;)

[Gerben42]

Free, I'm sure the local rule is that you are not allowed to have an AGREEMENT to open on less than rule-of-18. This is not the same as being allowed to open on less than rule-of-18. So yes, you can open it but don't make it a habit as it would be an implicit illegal agreement.

 

BTW the second hand looks a lot like my most recent psych, although it was in 3rd seat. Opps played 3NT with 6♥ cold. LHO asked me how many HCP I had, I answered: Four. Director, he opened with only 4 HCP!

 

Director: It's a psych, please continue playing. So we did. After the second board was finished LHO looked at the score sheet from the 1st board again and then noticed I had only two hearts. Director! He doesn't have any hearts either! :)

[LH2650]

 

Do you have a link to this article?

 

I don't believe there is one, and the magazine is of course copyrighted.

 

Law 40D allows regulation of opening 1-bids that are "a King or more below average strength". It is presumably phrased this way in order to avoid imposing a specific hand evaluation method. The ACBL requires that the Goren HCP evaluation method be used, but does not allow Goren distribution adjustments, and it has no right to do either. It is often stated that a 6421 point system is more accurate than 4321. If that is used, then your first hand fails the 40B requirement, while the second hand meets it. If you use the Kaplan-Rubens Four C's evaluation (about a 10 point average), your first hand comes in at a dismal 5.1, while your second is 16.8 - a mandatory 1-opening, with plenty to spare, according to Kaplan.

 

I think we all agree that we would much rather hold your second hand than your first, and a competent director should be able to make that judgment.

[pbleighton]

"The ACBL requires that the Goren HCP evaluation method be used, but does not allow Goren distribution adjustments, and it has no right to do either"

 

Except that it does, and in ACBL events, what it says goes.

 

Peter (no fan of the ACBL)

[Finch]

Law 40D allows regulation of opening 1-bids that are "a King or more below average strength". It is presumably phrased this way in order to avoid imposing a specific hand evaluation method. The ACBL requires that the Goren HCP evaluation method be used, but does not allow Goren distribution adjustments, and it has no right to do either.

 

(some stuff snipped)

 

I think we all agree that we would much rather hold your second hand than your first, and a competent director should be able to make that judgment.

I don't agree.

 

If the sponsoring organisation is going to regulate my agreements about opening bids, I think it is much better than they do so in a way that does not allow judgement. They can do that by Goren HCP, or by "rule of n", or any mechanical means that they like (that people can understand), but I believe it should be mechanical.

 

The difficulty with allowing judgement is that everybody's judgement is different. While we might all agree on some hands, there will always be a boundary where people disagree. I would hate to play a system where every time I open light by agreement there is a risk that the TD's judgement or the AC's judgement differs from mine and suddenly I find boards are cancelled, more or less at random. In addition, it slows everything down if I can't just appeal to a mechanical rule.

 

p.s. I'm actually not in favour of regulating opening bids at all, but that's a totally different issue.