mgoetze Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 For those of you who want to watch interesting systems on Vugraph but are too lazy to look through all the convention cards, here's an overview of what to expect in the upcoming Bermuda Bowl: Precision-like Systems (Strong Club with shape positives, 5-card majors): Dai-Yang (China), Chiu-Yang (C. Taipei), Barakat-Ghanem (Jordan) [super Precision], de Wijs-Muller (Netherlands) [Tarzan Precision], Jassem-Martens [Non-Vuln] (Poland), Gromov-Dubinin (Russia), Nyström-Bertheau (Sweden), Greco-Hampson (USA), Meckstroth-Rodwell (USA) Strong Club, 5-card majors, Control Responses: Lambardi-Madala (Argentinia), Mooney-Monsegur (Argentina) Strong Club, 4-card majors, Canape: Ekeblad-Rubin (USA), Hamman-Soloway (USA) 2-way Club (Scandinavian Style): Lindkvist-Fredin (Sweden), Sundelin-Sylvan (Sweden) 3-way Club (Polish Style): Jansma-Verhees (Netherlands), Jagniewski-Pazur (Poland), Jassem-Martens [Vuln] (Poland), Krupowicz-Lutostanski (Poland), Khven-Khoklov (Russia), Zlotov-Kholomeev (Russia) Moscito or Similar: Marston-Thomson (Australia), Reid-Newell (New Zealand) Unclassifiable Red-Category Systems: Hobart-Mittelman (Canada), El Geddawy-Pascal (Egypt), Fantoni-Nunes (Italy) The Marston-Thomson CC has lots of detail on Moscito 2005 attached, for those who aren't content with the Booklet we got recently. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks! I counted 26 pairs, all playing some kind of "non-natural" system. How many pairs are playing in total, and do you know generally what the rest are playing, in general - is it mostly 5 card majors and strong NT? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I counted 26 pairs, all playing some kind of "non-natural" system. How many pairs are playing in total 22 teams of 3 pairs in all 3 series: Open, Women, Seniors. For full BBO vugraph (provisional) schedule: http://online.bridgebase.com/vugraph/schedule.php For systems:http://www.ecatsbridge.com/Events/wbf/2005...ril/default.asp Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 This is going to be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 From WBF Systems Policy... 3. SYSTEMS ALLOWED AT WBF CHAMPIONSHIPS In relation to the aspect of Systems to be allowed at WBF Championships, the events will be divided into three categories: CATEGORY 1 Bermuda Bowl, Venice Cup For such events all classifications of systems will be permitted, subject to adequate disclosure, but teams using HUM systems must submit their Convention Cards in advance in accordance with the Conditions of Contest and will be subject to a reduction of seating rights, as follows: Whenever a team with one or more pairs using a HUM system opposes a team that has no such pair, the HUM systems team will be the 'Away' team, and lines up first throughout. No special seating rights or line-up restrictions shall apply when two teams containing HUM systems pairs (regardless of line-up) oppose one another. What do the last 2 paragraphs actually mean? - special seating rights, line-up restrictions? tyiajb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 What in the world is "Tarzan Precision"? Beat on your chest several times, scream, and then bid 1 club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 From WBF Systems Policy... 3. SYSTEMS ALLOWED AT WBF CHAMPIONSHIPS In relation to the aspect of Systems to be allowed at WBF Championships, the events will be divided into three categories: CATEGORY 1 Bermuda Bowl, Venice Cup For such events all classifications of systems will be permitted, subject to adequate disclosure, but teams using HUM systems must submit their Convention Cards in advance in accordance with the Conditions of Contest and will be subject to a reduction of seating rights, as follows: Whenever a team with one or more pairs using a HUM system opposes a team that has no such pair, the HUM systems team will be the 'Away' team, and lines up first throughout. No special seating rights or line-up restrictions shall apply when two teams containing HUM systems pairs (regardless of line-up) oppose one another. What do the last 2 paragraphs actually mean? tyiajb I don't know, but my best guess is it means that, if one of the pairs on a team is playing a "highly unusual method" system and no one on the opposing team is playing a HUM (highly unusual method) system, then the team without any HUM pairs gets the final choice regarding which pairs from their team face which pairs from the opps team. However, if both teams have pairs playing highly unusual methods, then some other method (maybe seeding) is used to determine who has the final say in terms of whch pairs play against whom. (Just a guess) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 What in the world is "Tarzan Precision"? Beat on your chest several times, scream, and then bid 1 club? Maybe you are too young to remember Tarzan (Johnny Weissmüller). The system was developed in New Zealand and revised in England; now played by Simon de Wijs-Bauke Muller from the Netherlands. WijsMuller. Got it? ;) Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I don't know, but my best guess is it means that, if one of the pairs on a team is playing a "highly unusual method" system and no one on the opposing team is playing a HUM (highly unusual method) system, then the team without any HUM pairs gets the final choice regarding which pairs from their team face which pairs from the opps team. Correct, because the pair that chooses to play against the HUM pair is allowed to bring a written "open defence" to the table. They are permitted to have a look at the notes at any time during the match. By giving that team the right to choose seating last, one nation only needs to let one pair concentrate on preparing an open defence. It's quite time consuming. The normal precedure (no HUM pair) is to let the Home Team choose last, after they have seen which pair from the opposing team will be sitting where. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks, I had thought 'all pairs play all pairs' in these tournaments, I didn't realise you can chose who plays who for the duration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks, I had thought 'all pairs play all pairs' in these tournaments, I didn't realise you can chose who plays who for the duration. No, in a teams event like the Bermuda Bowl, Venice Cup & Senior Bowl you play against all other 21 teams (Round-Robin). One team is only allowed to field 2 pairs at a time, one for the open and one for the closed room, so 1 pair will always be sitting out. You do not know which pairs the opponents are going to play until rather late before the match begins. If it's the first match of the day, the line-ups must be handed in the evening before. Between matches 1 & 2 and 2 & 3 the procedure is normally 1-2 hours before the start of the next match (varies from event to event, depending on how long a break there is between matches). All this is in the hands of the NPC (Non Playing Captain). (S)he often confers with the players before deciding the line-up. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I did not know that HUM were permitted in the Bermuda Bowl ! Is there at least a pair playing this kind of system ? Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 What in the world is "Tarzan Precision"? Beat on your chest several times, scream, and then bid 1 club? Symmetric Relay Precision, basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I did not know that HUM were permitted in the Bermuda Bowl ! Is there at least a pair playing this kind of system ? Alain If HUMs were not allowed in the top World event, HUMs would not exist at all ! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Symmetric Relay Precision, basically. The Muller-de Wijs convention card (without system notes) can be found at: http://www.ecatsbridge.com/documents/files...ller-dewijs.pdf Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks! I counted 26 pairs, all playing some kind of "non-natural" system. How many pairs are playing in total, and do you know generally what the rest are playing, in general - is it mostly 5 card majors and strong NT? Peter The English team all play fairly natural systems, but two of the pairs (I think) play 4 card majors - the Hacketts certainly do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 All three English pairs (Gold-Townsend, Price-Simpson, Hackett-Hackett) play 4 card majors with either a 14-16 or 15-17 NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I counted 26 pairs, all playing some kind of "non-natural" system. How many pairs are playing in total 22 teams of 3 pairs in all 3 series: Open, Women, Seniors. For full BBO vugraph (provisional) schedule: http://online.bridgebase.com/vugraph/schedule.php For systems:http://www.ecatsbridge.com/Events/wbf/2005...ril/default.asp Roland The new convention cards aren't online yet. Is there any way to get them already? I'm especially interested in the MOSCITO conventioncards :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMetsch Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 It works for me at this location: http://www.ecatsbridge.com/documents/docde...onvention+Cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 What in the world is "Tarzan Precision"? Beat on your chest several times, scream, and then bid 1 club? Maybe you are too young to remember Tarzan (Johnny Weissmüller). The system was developed in New Zealand and revised in England; now played by Simon de Wijs-Bauke Muller from the Netherlands. WijsMuller. Got it? B) Roland Thank you, Roland, for thinking that I am young. But, I am very familiar not only with Johnny Weismuller (wasn't he an olympic swimmer or diver at one point?), but also with Ron Ely who played Tarzan on a TV Tarzan series in the states during the 60s. (I also briefly knew a couple of Ely's cousins: long story). But alas, i saw 40 come and go more than 15 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdct Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 If HUMs were not allowed in the top World event, HUMs would not exist at all ! B)Not true. In many countries HUM systems are played at national championships, at state championships and even at major club competitions. HUM systems live-on despite the WBF's efforts to stiffle them. To a large extent, HUM systems are not allowed in "top World events" anyway. They aren't allowed in the World Youth Teams and are only allowed in the Bermuda Bowl in the knockout stages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 ... and are only allowed in the Bermuda Bowl in the knockout stages. Does this mean that you have to play another system in the round robin ? Seems ridiculous !! :) :huh: Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 ... and are only allowed in the Bermuda Bowl in the knockout stages. Does this mean that you have to play another system in the round robin ? Seems ridiculous !! :huh: :huh: Alain You got it right. Read here: During the Round Robin stage of the Bermuda Bowl and Venice Cup ° If the matches are 16 boards or fewer, HUM systems and Brown Sticker Conventions will be prohibited. ° If the matches are longer (17-20 boards) • HUM systems are still prohibitedBrown Sticker Conventions will be permitted, with a maximum of three per pair During the Knockout stage of the Bermuda Bowl and Venice Cup HUM systems or Brown Sticker Conventions will be authorized for use in the knockout stage in both the Bermuda Bowl and Venice Cup provided additional, separate convention cards, including proposed defences are submitted in full accordance with the systems regulations published in the Supplemental Conditions of Contest. • Special seating restrictions will be in force for pairs using Brown Sticker Conventions or HUM Systems at any stage. .... Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I don't know what others think, but to me this logic is absurd. The BB is one of the premier events of Bridge. I would expect that anyone playing in this should have the nous and the application to develop defences to Hums and Brown sticker conventions. After all we can play Hums here in teams events of 14+ board matches and even the lols seem to cope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I don't know what others think, but to me this logic is absurd. The BB is one of the premier events of Bridge. I would expect that anyone playing in this should have the nous and the application to develop defences to Hums and Brown sticker conventions. After all we can play Hums here in teams events of 14+ board matches and even the lols seem to cope. BUT THEY DO NOT. I assume if the top 100 ranked world class players bitched they could change this.Based on my reading of usa, UK and Aust bridge magazines..I see no major complaints. Minor yes, Major NO. If you have a petition signed by the top 75 out of top 200 WBF ranked players...broadcast it. Otherwise I can only assume this is a nonissue. Out of the dues paying members this is really a nonissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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