When it's easy, watch out!

[Echognome]

I can understand that because in my system partner would tend to bid 1♠ if he had 3 card support in hearts to fall back on. However, remember that this is the beginner/intermediate forum, so it is fair to assume that partner is just denying 6 hcp. However, I agree with you that partner's double is unsound with 3 card hearts support. The 4♠ bid could easily have been made with a void heart.

[Chamaco]

I can understand that because in my system partner would tend to bid 1♠ if he had 3 card support in hearts to fall back on. However, remember that this is the beginner/intermediate forum, so it is fair to assume that partner is just denying 6 hcp. 

 

Sure, I am not criticizing the original pass with 3 card support and a bust, which in "standard" is the only possibility (although I agree with you it's nice to be able to raise semi-preemptively, but that's outside of the scope of the thread).

 

However, I agree with you that partner's double is unsound with 3 card hearts support.  The 4♠ bid could easily have been made with a void heart.

 

That's exactly my point.

If I have to assume pard made a reasonable double, I expect him to have *not only long trumps* but also to be *short in my opened suit* (most likley a singleton after he plays small at the 1st trick).

This is because shortness in opener suit preserves the defensive potential (if he held support for my suit, it is more likely that some of my honors are ruffed, reducing the number of our tricks) , and IMO a defensive shape is the only factor that can barely justify doubling when holding a hand so poor in hcp that had to pass a 1-level opening.

 

This inference is IMO big-time much stronger than the constrasting reasoning "Declarer would not have jumpbid 3S holding Jxx in hearts".

 

So the assumption that the double was reasonable led me to a wrong reconstruction of the shape of the hidden hands, hence to the wrong defensive plan.

 

Of course if I have to assume my pard doubles just with length in trumps, then anything goes.

[Gerben42]

I know a lot of players don't pass 1♥ with the actual East hand. I think that's wrong. Although you have 3-card support you have no ruffing value, no 1st or 2nd round controls, and not enough high cards to respond.

 

Partner might not be able to get to your hand AT ALL. If you support ♥ he will be in 3 or 4♥ on many hands where dummy will not be reached and he'll go down. Partner did not open 2♣, thereby stating that you can pass on bad hands. This is a bad hand. Pass.

[Walddk]

I think East's pass of 1♥ is perfectly normal. After all 1♥ is not forcing in any system I know. I also think his double is reasonable. He is looking at two certain trump tricks, a solid suit that can't be picked up for less than two losers.

 

9 of opener's high card points were in hearts, and they only produced one trick. A little unlucky I would say. But even then the contract could have been defeated.

 

Which defence do you think West would have found if East had passed 4♠? Right, ♥AK without much thought. A capable declarer would now make the contract once he discovers that spades are 0-4. Exactly as it happened here.

 

I think it's unfair to criticize East for getting the defence wrong. West had the chance, but he continued with an "automatic" second high heart in a split second. Maybe he should have taken stock and tried to figure out which layout is more likely.

 

I honestly think that a good defender would have found the answer after East's double rather than if he had passed.

 

Roland

[coyot]

Agree. My defense would be to cash my heart tricks and hope that partner has good trumps for doubling. I will not bother planning defense for any case where partner has 3 hearts, because I know that he would NOT double with any such holding... (even doubleton heart might be dangerous...

 

It took me about 3 years to learn to pass unless I really have the values that my bid promises. I have absolutely no problem with passing a hand that is void in partner's suit and contains 5 bad points - or contains 3card support and 4-5 bad points.

 

I would never discover the right line to defend the above hand correctly, because partner's double definitely painted a VERY different picture for me.

[Gerben42]

After all 1♥ is not forcing in any system I know.

 

Soon coming to a Vugraph theatre near you: the Bermuda Bowl starring Fulvio Fantoni & Claudio Nunes :P

 

What this hand shows that it is good to stop and think about what's going on and that automatic plays can hurt.

[Walddk]

After all 1♥ is not forcing in any system I know.

 

Soon coming to a Vugraph theatre near you: the Bermuda Bowl starring Fulvio Fantoni & Claudio Nunes :P

Quite right, but I never claimed to know their system. I do know, however, that a 1♠ response to 1♥ shows 0-9 hcp, so 1♥ must indeed be forcing. 14+ hcp I think it is.

 

But rest assured that the East-West pair in question (intermediate players) did not play Fantunes.

 

Roland

[cherdano]

Is it just me who thinks that a 3♠ bid in the passout seat shows a stronger hand? And that the double was just bad? (That it could have gone down is no excuse. His partner may have made the same opening bid without the ♦K.)

 

[btw, why can I conclude that RHO would not jump to 3♠ with ♥Jxx, when he does so freely with ♦Qxx?]

 

I agree with Ben that partner must be 4=2=0=6 and made a lightner double before discovering his singleton diamond.

 

Arend

[han]

Arend, you are not the only one. I think that it is almost impossible to construct hands such that both south and east bid correctly, and as it turns out, both bid at least questionably. 2S should show a minimal opening bid with 6 good spades, and this hand seems appropriate. I couldn't imagine that east would double with 3 hearts (which counts as negative defense).

 

All in all a tough problem, many a squeeze would be easier!

 

As for agreeing with Ben, there are only 13 clubs in a deck of cards, we make no exceptions for you either.

 

BTW, you haven't posted enough lately Arend.

[Double !]

2S in the balancing seat would suggest a sound opening bid with (likely) a reasonable 6-card suit: an intermediate jump-overcall. So, IMO, that type of hand (are there enough hcp remaining after looking at W & N's hands) can be ruled out. I also thought the south had 7 spades, but I doubted that south had a stiff heart because that would give P 3 hearts, 4 spades, and still not enough to respond. IMO, it is very risky to double with length in P's suit as some of P's values might not cash (especially considering what some people are opening with these days). So, giving P & declarer each 2 hearts, i kept having difficulties (late at night) finding distributions that added up to 13 and didn't allow declarer to pitch sufficient losers with a club switch. Oh, well, the QJT9 was no surprise.