Al_U_Card Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 [hv=d=s&v=n&s=sktxxxhtxxdxckqxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP p-1♦-2♣-3♦???[/hv] Where is this hand headed and what do you bid to get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I am a passed hand. I bid 3♠. I couldn't open 2♠ or 1♠, I am bidding at the three level now in a new suit. This has to be a fit non-jump. Showing ♠ and a ♣ fit. This is my last non-forced bid in the auction. I have my bid, I have described my distributon and values, and very well limited my hand. It is up to partner to decide where we are going and how we are going to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 3S for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted August 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 So far so good. Now based on what pard showed for the NV 2 level overcall missing the KQ, what would he need to make a move and how would he do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 if he had a fit...he'd bid game...if he had a lot of extras he'd bid 5C. If he had a stopper he may try 3N. If he had none of the above he'd pass or bid 4C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 3♠ quite simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Not sure, you want me to bid an unseen hand? Then why did you give us the very easy hand to bid. 3♠ here is automatic. But I will try...ok, 1) Partner with minimum yuck and three card spade fit can pass or bid 4♠. You would have to show me what minimum yuck to pick between them. Partenr with four card spade fit will simply bid game I suspect with minimums. I would pass 4♠ 2) Without a ♠ fit partner could bid 3NT, he could bid 4/5/6 ♣. I would pass each of these bids. 3) partner could cue-bid ♦, or he could cue-bid ♥. I would take a ♥ cue-bid here as looking for ♦ control. Over 4♦, I would bid 4♠. This is not a cue-bid, this is simply denying a ♥ control. Maybe partner wanted to play in ♠, I don't know. Over 4♥, I will not bid 4♠. I am not sure what partner is up to, but I have a ♦ control and I am quite proud of the values I promised. I suspect I would bid 5♣. This will show a ♦ control since I went past 4♠ which might be what partner had in mind. I consider 5♣ a "bid on" signal, not a sign-off should partner be thinking about slam. With a timid partner, not prone to making slam tries often, over 4♥ I would bid even higher than 5♣, maybe even choosing 6♣ pass/correct. Now, do you want me to draw up ahnds? S-Axx H- xx D -xx C-AJTxxx - pass 3♠S-Axxx H-x D-xx C-AJTxxx - bid 4♠ = responder will passS-x H-AQx D-xxx C-AJxxxx - bid 4♣ = responder will passs-xx H-AQ D-Ax C-AJTxxx - bid 5♣ = responder will passS-AQx H-Ax D-xx C-AJTxxx - bid 4♥ = responder will show ♦ control, slam bidS-AQx H-xx D-Ax C-AJTxxx - bid 4♦ = responder iwll bid 4♠ end auctionS-x H-AQx D-Axx C-AJTxxx - bid 4♦ = responder bid 5♣. you pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 By an unpassed hand, I play this shows spades. By a passed hand, this shows spades and a club fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted August 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 [hv=s=sqxhakdkxxcaxxxxx]133|100|Pard passed after some thought... (Perhaps wondering if he left the iron on?)[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I would have bid 3N with that hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Partner made a bad decision. He can count 6C and 2H tricks and should get one on the lead or be able to build one up. I guess he did not understand the 3S bid. Incidentally the 2C bid is pretty ugly, I prefer 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted August 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Incidentally the 2C bid is pretty ugly, I prefer 1NT. Despite the shape considerations, a 1NT bid would have gotten us to the right spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 [hv=s=sqxhakdkxxcaxxxxx]133|100|Pard passed after some thought... (Perhaps wondering if he left the iron on?)[/hv] Your partner's pass is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 :) This thread contains lots of erudite discourse on why bidding spades must show clubs (how convenient) and how bidding spades allows one to reach a 3NT game. I am obliged to point out that raising clubs in order to show clubs leads to a 5♣ game that is a bit higher percentage than 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 :) This thread contains lots of erudite discourse on why bidding spades must show clubs (how convenient) and how bidding spades allows one to reach a 3NT game. I am obliged to point out that raising clubs in order to show clubs leads to a 5♣ game that is a bit higher percentage than 3NT. Eh?? Unless you are playing with a beginner, the S bid clearly shows C. How on earth can a passed hand bid S at this level UNLESS there is C support? Raising C might lead to a C game on THIS hand; bidding S can also lead to a C ontract. There are many hands you can construct where a 4S contract will be far superior to a C contract, and you won't be able to get there unless you bid S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Eh?? Unless you are playing with a beginner, the S bid clearly shows C. How on earth can a passed hand bid S at this level UNLESS there is C support?I don't really disagree. The way it was explained to me about a lifetime ago was that 3♠ indicates a 'tolerance' for clubs. About the only possible exception would be a hand with 3 or (better) four small diamonds and a 1 or 2 loser spade sit that wasn't right for an opening 2 or 3 bid. Not a common occurance. Still, bidding the ratty spades with such superb club support has to be on the edge of the envelope - not bad, but not the only decent bid. The actual hand is a sample of one suggesting that raising clubs is a viable (perhaps better) alternative. To me, 3♠ bespeaks fear and matchpointitis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Still, bidding the ratty spades with such superb club support has to be on the edge of the envelope - not bad, but not the only decent bid. The actual hand is a sample of one suggesting that raising clubs is a viable (perhaps better) alternative. To me, 3♠ bespeaks fear and matchpointitis. I might suggest that you get a copy of Robson/Segal's Partnership bidding at bridge, and read the material on Fit Non Jumps. Perhaps you will choose not to play Fit Non Jumps, that is your option. But you will find that, and some other topics in that book at least intersting. Far from bespeaking Fear and Matchpoints, 3S here is a textbook Fit Non Jump hand by a passed hand. Perhaps this is why new crowned world champion Justin Lall (Jlall above) said "3S for me as well." This really isn't even close, 3♠ is an automatic bid for anyone playing this style of bridge. And quite frankly, imho, the best meaning for this bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 You don't need my agreement about 3♠ showing a fit...but I might add that 3♠ is forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Still, bidding the ratty spades with such superb club support has to be on the edge of the envelope - not bad, but not the only decent bid. The actual hand is a sample of one suggesting that raising clubs is a viable (perhaps better) alternative. To me, 3♠ bespeaks fear and matchpointitis. Well, 10 tricks are a lot easier than 11. 4C is ok but it makes it impossible to find 4S on a 5-3 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 You don't need my agreement about 3♠ showing a fit...but I might add that 3♠ is forcing. Interesting, although I think theoretically this is wrong (as the passed hand is limited) I cannot think of a hand where I would pass 3S so I guess it is forcing, though only implicitly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 3♠ is an excellent start to the cold 6♣ opposite AQxAxxxAxxxxx Good partners always have that hand! Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 It was clear to me that either black game was possible but I would have accepted a pass (I don't consider the 3S forcing at all) as I can see pard with a minimum hand only making 9 tricks (and not in NT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 It was clear to me that either black game was possible but I would have accepted a pass (I don't consider the 3S forcing at all) as I can see pard with a minimum hand only making 9 tricks (and not in NT). Then perhaps you should change your agreement. How can a passed hand wish to play in a (new) 5-card suit at the 3-level after a 2♣ overcall by partner? Remember that West already denied 6 spades when he passed initially. May I suggest that you play this as (natural) forcing with a fit to overcaller's suit. In other words: if partner doesn't like spades (at least three cards), he must bid either 4♣ or 5♣, depending on how strong his overcall was and how well he likes his hand after the 3♠ bid. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 For sure the expectation of a correction to 4C (not forward going). If he has a 13 count with qxx of S, he could pass, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 For sure the expectation of a correction to 4C (not forward going). If he has a 13 count with qxx of S, he could pass, don't you think? No, I do not. 3♠ is logically forcing. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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