bidding to partners overcall

[pigpenz]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sq87haj85dk32c432]133|100|Scoring: IMP

imps[/hv]

 

AUCTION:

1♣ 1♠ DOUBLE(NEGATIVE) YOUR CALL

 

I am interested in how others handle these type of auction with 3 card support and about 10HCP.

[mike777]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sq87haj85dk32c432]133|100|Scoring: IMP

imps[/hv]

 

AUCTION:

1♣ 1♠ DOUBLE(NEGATIVE) YOUR CALL

 

I am interested in how others handle these type of auction with 3 card support and about 10HCP.

2s seems easy, guess I am missing something here.

 

this is a really terrible hand.

[pigpenz]

2s seems easy, guess I am missing something here.

I dont know are you! We could be missing game?

[mike777]

2s seems easy, guess I am missing something here.

I dont know are you! We could be missing game?

missing game...:) I am afraid 2s is an overbid, oh well.

[Winstonm]

2S seems clear cut and not without some risk - flat hand with really only 2 working cards - the spade Q and the heart A - isn't much to write home about. After this call, I'm leaving any further action up to partner and I'm hoping he doesn't press on to 3S without a suitable hand.

 

If the minors were reversed, I'd prefer a natural 1N to express the values and the shape, leaving partner better placed to compete, pass, or double any future action.

 

Winston

[pclayton]

Hmm - Honor 3rd of trump, ♥AJ8 over the negative dblr, K in an unbid suit and a 10 count. Seems like 3 - 3 1/2 cover cards to me. Starting to look like a limit raise isn't it? Only drawback is the 4333 stench pattern.

 

I play 2♥ here as a constructive raise, and 2♠ as 3 card drek. Even then, I think I'm still upgrading.

[Walddk]

2♥ for me, sound raise to (at least) 2♠, as I would have done even over a pass by RHO. I play transfer advances, also known as USP (Useful Space Principle).

 

I would have bid 2♠ without the ♦K. It actually takes very little to raise spades to the 2-level when you have a sound advance available. Since 2♥ is not an option in the poll, I shall have to go for "other".

 

Roland

[mikeh]

Good hand for transfer advances.

 

I would bid 2♥, constructive raise in ♠.

 

If unavailable, then 2♠, feeling that I had extras, but not quite good enough to cue opener's suit. If not playing transfers, I like 2♥ to be natural: just because an opp holds (say) Jxxx in ♥ doesn't mean that we can't play the suit :)

[Walddk]

Good hand for transfer advances.

 

I would bid 2♥, constructive raise in ♠.

 

If unavailable, then 2♠, feeling that I had extras, but not quite good enough to cue opener's suit. If not playing transfers, I like 2♥ to be natural: just because an opp holds (say) Jxxx in ♥ doesn't mean that we can't play the suit :)

This is becoming quite irritating. Earlier I had to agree with him, and now he seems to agree with me. Keep it up Mike, and agree to the fact that the rocks have always and will always be ours!

 

Roland

[mikeh]

Good hand for transfer advances.

 

I would bid 2♥, constructive raise in ♠.

 

If unavailable, then 2♠, feeling that I had extras, but not quite good enough to cue opener's suit. If not playing transfers, I like 2♥ to be natural: just because an opp holds (say) Jxxx in ♥ doesn't mean that we can't play the suit :)

This is becoming quite irritating. Earlier I had to agree with him, and now he seems to agree with me. Keep it up Mike, and agree to the fact that the rocks have always and will always be ours!

 

Roland

This is indeed annoying..... even though to say so means recognizing that Roland agrees with me yet again. All I can say is that apparently Roland has been reading my posts and has decided to accept the wisdom I have to offer.

 

Now, if only the other Danes were as wise, and recognized the inherent right of the population of Hans O to self-determination. Once again, a European power is acting in an over-bearing colonial manner in the New World! The referendum results are in: the gulls and the majority of the sea-lions are Canadian!

[Al_U_Card]

I still like to q-bid 2C. As flat as this hand is, all of your cards are working and any C cards that your pard holds will be good too. The q-bid of the H takes up more space than this hand can allow. Imagine if pard continues with 2H! showing a 5-4 pattern and RHO was showing a 5 card D suit with less than 9 hcp........

[Walddk]

I still like to q-bid 2C. As flat as this hand is, all of your cards are working and any C cards that your pard holds will be good too. The q-bid of the H takes up more space than this hand can allow. Imagine if pard continues with 2H! showing a 5-4 pattern and RHO was showing a 5 card D suit with less than 9 hcp........

2♣ is fine with me if you don't play USP. If you do, 2♣ would show diamonds. Transfer advances allow you to do both.

 

Roland

[awm]

I'd bid 2♣ or otherwise show a limit raise in spades. There are some interesting things about this hand though:

 

(1) If my RHO had passed, I would probably bid 2♠. The hand is 4333 with 9 losers. But the heart jack is starting to look like a very good card on the bidding, and my lack of club cards is actually a good thing.

 

(2) If I had fewer hearts, I would be more tempted to bid 2♠. This is because a 2♣ call allows the opponents the chance to find a 4-4 heart fit at the two-level. Even a 2♥ transfer advance can have this effect. But with four card hearts, it's not that likely that the opponents can effectively compete in the heart suit.

[pigpenz]

I like to play

2♣= 3card support limit type of hand

3♣=4 card support limit type of hand

2♠=competitive

3♠pre emptive

4level bids=4+ cards support and 5 cards in the suit bid

[Double !]

2♣

intermediate filling honor in trumps and prime honors outside, hopefully well-located hearts, diamond king an unknown quality, but no wasted values in clubs. 2C I play as 3-card limit raise. Will make minimum rebid including passing should P rebid 2S. This might be a nice hand if P has a reasonable pointed suit 2-suiter.

 

A lot of this also depends on how you play your overcalls, but I'm not forcing the bidding past 2S (which is the bid many suggested) when I bid 2Clubs. Just showing maybe a king more (2S could be bid on a weaker hand/ this hand has more defense, too).

[mike777]

I like to play

2♣= 3card support limit type of hand

3♣=4 card support limit type of hand

2♠=competitive

3♠pre emptive

4level bids=4+ cards support and 5 cards in the suit bid

So is this a limit raise?

Not even close in my book

9.5-10 LTC.

 

I see no reason to uprade the J of H or K of D at this point in bidding despite the neg X.

 

I define limit raise as 8 LTC. Not as 9-11 or 10-12 hcp etc....

[flytoox]

2S is too conservative. Your shape is bad, but your cards are all good. I like 2C to show a good three card raise.

[luke warm]

this hand has improved, imo... my hearts are good, partner's clubs are good, i have decent support... i'd bid 2H

[reisig]

If I was playing with myself - 2♠ is plenty...since my 1 level overcalls can be LIGHT and 4 card suits...4-3-3-3 crap is not a try. Always trust the opponents when in doubt.

[Free]

2♥, invite with ♠ support (we use transfer advances). If partner isn't sure, he can still try for game using a help suit trial.

[coyot]

How much does a negative double promise? 6? 8?.

How light do the opps open?

 

With this ugly shape, unless opps' bids leave the possibility of 24-25 HCP on our side, I will be quite happy to underbid 2♠.

 

What does LOTT say about this? We're likely in 8card fit and opps are likely to have one too, TOPS. So it looks like 16 tricks... If we're lucky when it comes to honor placement, we might score 9 and opps 7. Assuming RHO has some heart values, the unbid suit king is probably dead :).

 

I really don't worry about missing a game here. If we happen to have an agreement that distinguishes strong hands (cuebid), solid 2♠ (some other bid, maybe xx) and preempt (2♠), I will follow the principle that any direct raise in non-forcing and shows the trump suit length only :)

[kenberg]

This hand may or not be worth more than a 2S bid (not, imo) but if I think it is I would redouble. It seems to me that such a call should be natural. My reasons:

 

 

1. I can certainly hold ten or more points, on the given hand I do, and I can hold KQJTxx of either hearts or clubs and wish to bid them naturally.

 

2. The xx is not needed for rescue. I don't think I have ever seen 1C-1S-x(neg)-all pass. After 1C-1S-x-pass, opener knows his partner has four hearts and some perhaps modest values. Opener may hold four spades but for all opener knows his opponents hold the other nine. And any honors he may have are placed badly. The third hand, if he has spades and hearts, may choose to forego the negative double on the first round and hope to catch the spade bidder, but once he makes the negative double he, in practical terms, gives up on playing 1S doubled. His partner will rarely if ever have a hand that warrants a pass.

 

As it happens, a similar hand came up when I was playing yesterday, although the suit was hearts. Partner overcalled hearts, third hand made a negative double, I redoubled, opponents ran to a minor, I bid hearts, and partner, holding six hearts and extra values, passed it out. I guess he thought redoubling and then supporting his suit showed weakness.

[P_Marlowe]

2C, at least inv. values, probably

with fit.

 

Maybe they get scared or partner gets

encouraged to double for penalty, if they

wander at the 3 level.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[han]

2H constructive raise for me too, seems perfect.

[Flame]

If 2h is not avaliable i would choose 2S, i hear the opponents bidding, chances of game are low, so why should i strech up when 90% of the time we dont have a game ?