Tough 2/1 decision

[Winstonm]

I know that some play that a rebid of own suit by responder is non-forcing. I don't subscribe to that theory. I might be able to stop in 4mi, but not in 3.

 

If 3♦ is non-forcing after

 

1♠ - 2♦

2♥ - 3♦

 

I don't know how to bid this hand:

 

Q4

A

AQJ10843

K84

 

If you don't think you are strong enough to force to game, do not bid 2/1, bid 1NT. Quite simple.

 

Roland

Fortunately, I never pick up that hand. :angry:

Maybe not, Winston, but maybe you should consider bidding 1NT followed by 3♦ on

 

6

J4

AJ108764

Q72

 

Then you have 2♦ followed by 3♦ available as game forcing. The whole idea of 2/1: you don't have to jump around all the time and ruin it for your side when you finally get the good cards. 2♦ is game forcing!

 

Roland

I do bid this way with this hand; however with:

 

xx, xx, KQJ9xxx, Axx

 

I can't bid it the same way. So this is the 2D, 3D hand for me. Maybe we'll play 3N with 22-24 between us when partner bids 2N, but with a guarantee of at least xx in diamonds opposite where else would we rather be?

 

With the big diamond hands, I can always invent a 4th suit force - not ideal, but with 3 bids needed and only 2 slots open, something has to give - and I'm more inclined to invite with invitational values, show disinterest with weaker hands, and commit to game with values- which is all the 4th suit means to me in this auction - we're going to at least game, partner; now all we have to do is figure our where.

 

Winston

[Fluffy]

Sorry, I'm a bit losed... do you guys happen to play 3♣ natural on this action? cos I don't, and would bid 3♦ rather than 3♣.

[mikeh]

I have seen several players use 4th suit as artificial, strong, when they are already in a forcing auction. With all respect, why?

 

4th suit forcing is used to create a force: usually in sequences in which we would prefer to use jumps as limit (or picture, or signoff etc), thus requiring us to manufacture a force.

 

If you are playing 'strong' 2/1, 1♠ 2♦ has created an auction in which you cannot stop below game, so why waste an otherwise useful, informative bid as an artificial force?

 

Now, if you play 'weak' 2/1, in which a rebid of one's suit by responder can be passed, you may have a need for an artificial flavour to the 4th suit.

[Stephen Tu]

I have seen several players use 4th suit as artificial, strong, when they are already in a forcing auction. With all respect, why?

 

It depends on whether you want 1s-2d-2h-2s to absolutely guarantee 3S, and 2nt to guarantee a club stopper. If you do, something has to give, because you pick up these 2353 hands with no club stopper that would have no bid unless 3c can be artificial.

 

If you are willing to bid 2S on a small doubleton spade, then 3c can be natural.

 

Even in a GF auction, it can be useful to have 4th suit artificial, to give greater definition to your other bids. When 3 suits have been bid, it's quite unlikely to have a fit in the 4th suit.

 

As an aside, not having to manufacture a rebid by having auctions like 1s-2d-2s-3d isn't always a great help. On that type of auction, opener is in a guessing game over which round suits the diamond bidder has a stopper in (does 3H show doubt about clubs? If so how do you show doubt about hearts?). Sometimes bidding your side fragment strength will give partner more useful information than knowing about the sixth card of your initial suit.

 

I don't find that 2/1 GF bidders bid any more accurately than I do using methods with more non-forcing sequences.

[jdulmage]

1NT forcing.