Bidding after preempts (again)

[Free]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=skt986hk65da9ca32]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

RHO opens 3♦ in first seat. Do you bid (what?) or not?

[coyot]

Given the good spade spots, I would most likely vote for 3♠, but it requires agreements with partner about what is the minimum strength for such bid...

 

If 14 balanced HCP is not enough, I will happily pass (but that means that partner has to reopen 3♦ with almost any 10 HCP...

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

Marlowe

[mike777]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=skt986hk65da9ca32]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

RHO opens 3♦ in first seat. Do you bid (what?) or not?

Pass I expect Partner to balance with almost all 9-10 hcp and shortish D hands.

[Jurek S]

Fine, you can pass and wait for partner but he won't bid with any 10-12, only with short ♦ and majors. And what about LHO 4♦ - pass - pass ?

He will pass with 3325 3334.. when 3NT or 4♠ makes. You have shortish ♦ so you should act. I bid 3♠ but dbl could easly be the winner

[mike777]

Fine, you can pass and wait for partner but he won't bid with any 10-12, only with short ♦ and majors. And what about LHO 4♦ - pass - pass ?

He will pass with 3325 3334.. when 3NT or 4♠ makes. You have shortish ♦ so you should act. I bid 3♠ but dbl could easly be the winner

1) over 4d I wll balance with x

2) agree if pard has 10-12 and 3433 shape over 3d I am skunked.

[flytoox]

I would dbl. Overcalling 3S is too committal. Dbl is more flexible.

[Winstonm]

First choice: Pass

Second choice: Double

Third choice: Slap the Sh*$#* out of RHO for bidding 3D. :)

 

File this one under: Preempts work sometimes.

 

IMO, it's too risky to get involved unless partner has a hand that can balance. Better to take the small plus or the small minus than to turn in a -800 number against a partscore.

 

Winston

[hrothgar]

Preempts are nasty things.

Thats why we make em...

 

Here are the bids that I would consider in order of preference

 

1. Pass

2. Double

3. 3N

4. 3♠

 

From my perspective, the hand is slightly too weak for direct action.

If I were to make a bid, I consider the spade suit significantly too weak for a 3 level overcall - hence my preference for a more flexible double or even 3N...

[luis]

3♠ following the theory that if you are going to make a mistake it's better to do it as early as possible.

I don't like the scenarios after passing or doubling.

[pclayton]

Double wins the coin flip for me, only because I have short diamonds. With 3 diamonds, pard may find it difficult to balance.

[whereagles]

Do we need to bid NOW? Probably yes, because pard may be long in diams.

 

Having chosen to bid, my pick is 3H. Not perfect, but the best I could come up with :angry: 3S is too one-sided for my taste.

[Walddk]

Do we need to bid NOW? Probably yes, because pard may be long in diams.

 

Having chosen to bid, my pick is 3H. Not perfect, but the best I could come up with :angry: 3S is too one-sided for my taste.

Good description of your hand. You do indeed have 3 hearts. I would double, although I normally bid my 5-card major with 5-3. Not this time though, because the spade suit is too weak.

 

I know, I may end up in a 3-3 fit and violate Burn's Law of Total Trumps. Life goes on, as David would say.

 

Roland

[Al_U_Card]

After pard has passed, I use the principle of the random 7 count. If he has a random 7 count with say Hx or xxx in Spades then I will bid 3S with my 7 loser and nicely semi solid (KT98x) suit and say that the preempt worked if LHO dbls for penalty.

sat, I just re-read the question and see that it was for a 1st seat preempt. I still like the 3S bid as this hand is too good to pass. (altho it is close)

[Echognome]

Count me in the 3♠ camp.

 

I don't understand the statement that K10986 is not a good enough suit. Opposite any Hxx from partner you will have around a 50% chance or better of making 4 tricks in the suit. The 8 and 9 really help strengthen the suit.

[awm]

Double seems too likely to end us in a 4-3 fit in hearts. 3♥ seems a little weird, won't this often get you to 4♥ in a 4-3 or even 3-3? I don't like 3NT because if it's making, it will play better from partner's side -- Ax is not a good stopper if it's the only one, but if partner has Qx or Qxx or the like we might make 3NT if we right-side it.

 

I think the best options here are pass and 3♠. I would tend to bid 3♠ because I believe it will work out (get us to a making 4♠ or 3NT) more often than it will fail. There are many hands where partner has 3-card diamonds and will not be able to balance. But certainly I could go for a number in 3♠. So my choices would be:

 

(1) 3♠

(2) Pass

(3) Double

(4) 3NT

[P_Marlowe]

Fine, you can pass and wait for partner but he won't bid with any 10-12, only with short ♦ and majors. And what about LHO 4♦ - pass - pass ?

He will pass with 3325 3334.. when 3NT or 4♠ makes. You have shortish ♦ so you should act. I bid 3♠ but dbl could easly be the winner

So what?

 

If you overcall, partner may take you serious

or you happen to play against a pair, which knows

how to use the red card.

 

Saying that passing risks game is fine, but bidding has

also risks.

 

If you always reach any making game, I will gladly play against you,

because you will go down quite a lot for big numbers as well.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[luke warm]

1. double

2. 3s

3. pass

[whereagles]

Do we need to bid NOW? Probably yes, because pard may be long in diams.

 

Having chosen to bid, my pick is 3H. Not perfect, but the best I could come up with :) 3S is too one-sided for my taste.

Good description of your hand. You do indeed have 3 hearts.

I wrote 3H? lol.. I meant double.

[Double !]

Third choice: Slap the Sh*$#* out of RHO for bidding 3D.

 

Winston

Is this alertable?

[Free]

Here's the full hand:

 

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=sa5haqjt32d32cjt4&w=sj432h984d74ck985&e=sq7h7dkqjt865cq76&s=skt986hk65da9ca32]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

I doubled and we easily ended up in 4♥. However I agreed with my partner that my hand is probably a little too weak to Dbl. According to the responses it's not. For those overcalling 3♠, I wonder if partner bids 4♥ or 4♠...

[coyot]

K10986 is a good suit, considering the strain we're under. With any significantly worse spades, I pass.

 

I don't like the double at all. If partner with a weak hand picks hearts (possibly even on 3card), we can go down a lot when opps can make 3-4♦ but not 3[NT].

 

Yes, partner with a bad shape might not reopen 3♦ - I will then shrug my shoulders and say "ok, the preempt worked this time... such is life.

 

IMHO it is better to shrug a few times when they make 3♦ or go down a few when we have 3♦ than to go down a little more often (and sometimes doubled) with the excuse "oh, I had 14 HCP, I had to bid so that we don't miss a game".

 

If LHO raises diamonds, I have a nice reopen double... if partner is long in diamonds, we get a reasonable plus score, if he is short, we find a game.

 

Try to have another look at the problem:

How often, after your preempts, opponents pass and miss a good game?

How often, after similar preempts, opponents bid hurriedly and end up in a bad contract?

 

Into which of the groups you want to belong?

[Fluffy]

K10986 is a good suit, considering the strain we're under. With any significantly worse spades, I pass.

K109xx is a good 5 card suit, but to overcall at the 3 level you need more than 5 cards, 5.5 at least I would say, so that suit doesn't rate for it.

 

I normally pass with all 14 counts at the 3 level, but our hand is just too good, AAKK.... I don't need to learn to count zar to know this is worth more than quaky 17 if we are to play in 3/4M.

[P_Marlowe]

Here's the full hand:

 

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=sa5haqjt32d32cjt4&w=sj432h984d74ck985&e=sq7h7dkqjt865cq76&s=skt986hk65da9ca32]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

I doubled and we easily ended up in 4♥. However I agreed with my partner that my hand is probably a little too weak to Dbl. According to the responses it's not. For those overcalling 3♠, I wonder if partner bids 4♥ or 4♠...

Of course you would also have reached 4H, if

your partner had passed.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

K10986 is a good suit, considering the strain we're under.

No, IMO a 5 card *good* suit is a suit that either

1. needs AT MOST one entry to dummy to finesse, in case pard is weak, or

2. has realistic chances of playing for 0-1 losers even if pard contributes little.

 

So it should be close to semisolid.

This is not the case here.

 

True, the suit does not suck completely, but still it's a big gamble to bid such a 5 bagger. If LHO has values, we are likely to find any spade honors offside, and go for a number.

To make up for the quality of the suit, I would like that my hand has either extra overall hcp strength OR extra length in the suit

 

 

I prefer pass or double.

(I would have passed).