Matchpoint Deciscion

[pigpenz]

auction at matchpoints red vs black

1♣ pass 1♦ pas

your call?

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sjhq74dak3cakq973]133|100|Scoring: MP

YOU OPEN THE BIDDING IN FOURTH SEAT AFTER 3 PASSES[/hv]

[pclayton]

I'd add 3♠ to the list, which is what I'll try.

 

Not too worried about the 4th trump, since I have a fantastic source of tricks.

 

xxx, Axx, Qxxxx, xx gives us a fair play for slam. Add a 6th diamond or a 3rd club and its downright excellent.

[Blofeld]

I like 3♠ as well.

[mike777]

3s

 

Playing Walsh partner has denied a 4 card major so why not?

Pard has chosen to not bid 1nt

Pard has chosen to not bid weak 2 or 3 club raise

I like my chances in D.

[coyot]

Noone tries 3NT?

OK, the risk of losing 5 tricks in majors is too big :unsure:.

 

2♠ for me, then (I am an exotic creature that plays 1♠ rebid as forcing and 2♠ as splinter - everybody laughs at it, but I still refuse to change).

[P_Marlowe]

Boring.

 

3C, wtp?

 

If you dont like the system bid,

play art. reverses as Roland advocates,

or switch the meaning of 2C and 3C, i.e

make 2C forcing, as suggested by Richard

Pavlicek, but please stop posting those hands.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[whereagles]

Yes, 1♣ might get messy. This hand could try open 2NT or 2♣.

[Fluffy]

3♠ would require a 4th ♦, so I will just bid 1♥.

[Gerben42]

Partnership issue: What does partner respond on this?

 

xxx

xxx

Axx

QJxx

 

If 1♦ then splinter now is not a good idea!

[pclayton]

When I splinter for diamonds, after I open 1C, do I not promises longer clubs than diamonds?

 

Gerben, certainly we can find our way to 5C opposite your example hand after a splinter.

 

Are there pairs that still play 1C - 1N shows 8 - 10 or 11 and 1D is forced on you with a weak 3334? I thought this style went out 15 years ago.

 

Those that bid 3C on this hand aren't understanding this hand's potential. Opposite the hand I posted earlier, xxx, Axx, Qxxxx, xx, pard will pass 3C when 6 has a play.

[P_Marlowe]

When I splinter for diamonds, after I open 1C, do I not promises longer clubs than diamonds?

 

Gerben, certainly we can find our way to 5C opposite your example hand after a splinter.

 

Are there pairs that still play 1C - 1N shows 8 - 10 or 11 and 1D is forced on you with a weak 3334? I thought this style went out 15 years ago.

 

Those that bid 3C on this hand aren't understanding this hand's potential. Opposite the hand I posted earlier, xxx, Axx, Qxxxx, xx, pard will pass 3C when 6 has a play.

Hi,

 

since you claim 3C bidder dont understand the potential,

I will speak a 2nd time. I know, that 3C can be passed,

... yawn, I know, that the hand is great, so what?

 

If you dont like 3C, the system bid, and american style, 3C

shows already a solid 6 card suit and +17/18HCP, (how far

aways is this description?) contrary to european / Acol style,

change system, else make the system bid.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pigpenz]

I myself bid 3♣ at the table, my feeling is that in fourth seat it has to be a pretty good suit to open and jump to three level, geared more to getting to 3nt with the right stoppers in partners suit. All the splinter bids and things like that I can see if you had opened this hand in first or second seat opposite an unpassed hand, but once partner has passed it would seem we should be more interested in getting to 3NT.

[mike777]

I myself bid 3♣ at the table, my feeling is that in fourth seat it has to be a pretty good suit to open and jump to three level, geared more to getting to 3nt with the right stoppers in partners suit.  All the splinter bids and things like that I can see if you had opened this hand in first or second seat opposite an unpassed hand, but once partner has passed it would seem we should be more interested in getting to 3NT.

Ok, all of this is a fair analysis. But partner is still allowed to bid 3nt over our 3s splinter. This is MP not bridge after all :).

[luis]

Mps ? 3NT automatic, Hamman's Law Enforced at MPs.

[pclayton]

When I splinter for diamonds, after I open 1C, do I not promises longer clubs than diamonds?

 

Gerben, certainly we can find our way to 5C opposite your example hand after a splinter.

 

Are there pairs that still play 1C - 1N shows 8 - 10 or 11 and 1D is forced on you with a weak 3334? I thought this style went out 15 years ago.

 

Those that bid 3C on this hand aren't understanding this hand's potential. Opposite the hand I posted earlier, xxx, Axx, Qxxxx, xx, pard will pass 3C when 6 has a play.

Hi,

 

since you claim 3C bidder dont understand the potential,

I will speak a 2nd time. I know, that 3C can be passed,

... yawn, I know, that the hand is great, so what?

 

If you dont like 3C, the system bid, and american style, 3C

shows already a solid 6 card suit and +17/18HCP, (how far

aways is this description?) contrary to european / Acol style,

change system, else make the system bid.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Here's a neat little utility called K and R evaluator I like to use (from Jeff Goldsmith's site):

 

http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/knr.cgi

 

If you input the subject hand, you'll find the subjective value is 21.25 points.

 

K and R puts emphasis on long strong suits, and discounts short and unsupported honors. It was started by Edgar Kaplan and Jeff Rubens of the Bridge World.

 

SO, by this definition, 3♣ is an underbid by over an Ace. And what makes you think 3♣ promises anything close to a solid suit?

[Free]

Keep it simple: 1♥. However it also depends if you play Walsch or not...

[Al_U_Card]

You have to cater to both hands with 3D. Pard will get the idea that 3NT is possible if he has the major suit values to bid once more.

[P_Marlowe]

Here's a neat little utility called K and R evaluator I like to use (from Jeff Goldsmith's site):

 

http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/knr.cgi

 

If you input the subject hand, you'll find the subjective value is 21.25 points.

 

K and R puts emphasis on long strong suits, and discounts short and unsupported honors. It was started by Edgar Kaplan and Jeff Rubens of the Bridge World.

 

SO, by this definition, 3♣ is an underbid by over an Ace. And what makes you think 3♣ promises anything close to a solid suit?

Hi,

 

in the current context, solid does not mean AKQxxx,

change the wording to good suit.

 

If you believe the hand is worth 21.25, fine,

thats ok with me, but why did you not open stronger

with 2C or if available in your arsenal with a bid,

showing a semiforcing?

 

You did not do this in the first place, which is ok,

but this means, you have to accept, that you cant

transmit the information, that your hand is so strong,

at least, unless a fit is found, because you denied

this strength with your opening bid.

=> Because I cant, I wont.

 

That's all.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: As I already said, there exist solutions, if you want

to use them, fell free, change system, but until you do,

accept it, that you cant.

[luke warm]

i have to admit i'd bid 3C at the table... i think that's a very good description of my hand... i'm not crazy about splintering with 3 card support for a minor.. had partner bid 1H, and if i had that same support, it might be different (but i doubt it)

[Elianna]

Here's a neat little utility called K and R evaluator I like to use (from Jeff Goldsmith's site):

 

http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/knr.cgi

 

If you input the subject hand, you'll find the subjective value is 21.25 points.

 

K and R puts emphasis on long strong suits, and discounts short and unsupported honors. It was started by Edgar Kaplan and Jeff Rubens of the Bridge World.

 

SO, by this definition, 3♣ is an underbid by over an Ace. And what makes you think 3♣ promises anything close to a solid suit?

I know that we've been on this merry-go-round before but I don't think that K and R is a useful tool past opening bid. In fact, past 2nd chair. It evaluates hands in absentia of previous bidding. For example, if RHO bids spades, Kxx is worth more than if LHO had bid spades.

[kenberg]

I voted for 3C, I see the point of the 3S splinter, I raise a question. I think it likely (reasons to follow) that over 3S partner will bid 3NT. Now what?

 

Reasons for thinking partner will bid 3NT: The auction began with three passes. Partner is bidding diamonds on at most a queen high suit. Whether or not they are playing Walsh, it's a good bet partner has at most three spades. This means the non-vulnerable opponents, at mps, have 9 spades and have each passed up two opportunities to bid spades. Some of those honors must be in partner's hand. The time honored way to show wasted slam values (KQx) opposite a splinter is to bid 3NT. If I bid 3C, partner will (or so I am hoping) bid 3NT if he has something in each major, and he will bid 3S if he has only spades after which I can bid 4D offering a choice of games. So maybe I will stick with 3C.

 

Still, I gather from what Pig has said his partner passed 3C. Or else he has the heart ace and they missed the cold 6C. Or both. Hard to argue for 3C against that.

 

Pig: Am I right that your partner has some spade honors, or am I reading too much into this?

[mike777]

I voted for 3C, I see the point of the 3S splinter, I raise a question. I think it likely (reasons to follow) that over 3S partner will bid 3NT. Now what?

 

Reasons for thinking partner will bid 3NT: The auction began with three passes. Partner is bidding diamonds on at most a queen high suit. Whether or not they are playing Walsh, it's a good bet partner has at most three spades. This means the non-vulnerable opponents, at mps, have 9 spades and have each passed up two opportunities to bid spades. Some of those honors must be in partner's hand. The time honored way to show wasted slam values (KQx) opposite a splinter is to bid 3NT. If I bid 3C, partner will (or so I am hoping)  bid 3NT if he has something in each major, and he will bid 3S if he has only spades after which I can bid 4D offering a choice of games. So maybe I will stick with 3C.

 

Still,  I gather from what Pig has said his partner passed 3C. Or else he has the heart ace and they missed the cold 6C. Or both. Hard to argue for 3C against that.

 

Pig: Am I right that your partner has some spade honors, or am I reading too much into this?

If partner has stoppers in both majors she should bid 1nt. This is MP, why fool around bidding a worthless D suit. Bid where your hcp are!

 

No, 1D has to show doubt for no trumps. they can bid 3nt, as you say, over 3s with wasted spade honors.

[pclayton]

Elianna: has this hand gotten better or worse since pard responded 1D? I do agree that K and R is most helpful for initial evaluation, outside of the context of the rest of the auction.

 

P-M - you seem to be under the impression that there isn't any gap between a jump rebid and a strong artificial opening.

 

Anyway, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall on this one, and I've spoken my points. Feel free to respond, but please don't insult us with comments that suggest we are bound to a certain system, so the hand must be bid in a certain fashion....

[Elianna]

Elianna: has this hand gotten better or worse since pard responded 1D? I do agree that K and R is most helpful for initial evaluation, outside of the context of the rest of the auction.

I agree that it's gotten better. I just don't agree that K and R is the tool that should be used to claim that it has. :)

[awm]

I'd try 2♥ here. Playing walsh style responses would make this much easier I suspect. This hand is enough for a game force -- there are 8 possible tricks and you will have a shot at 3NT opposite as little as:

 

Kxx

Jx

Qxxx

xxxx

 

Surely partner is passing 3♣ with that hand. Partner probably also passes 3♣ with:

 

xxxx

Ax

Qxxxx

xx

 

So we need to force game. Outside some exotic psychics, the reasonable ways to do this are 2♥ and 3♠. I prefer 2♥ because it keeps the auction lower while still communicating my values. If partner bids 2NT or the like, I will try 3♦; if partner rebids diamonds we can look for slam in that strain, and if partner tries clubs my diamond bid should be choice of strains and pinpoint the issue in spades for 3NT.

 

The problem with 3♠ is, if we end up going past 3NT it will be very difficult to back into a club fit. Partner will expect four diamonds for the raise, and will prefer the illusory 4-4 fit to a 6-3 club fit. The danger of 2♥ is that partner might try to raise the hearts. Of course, if we play walsh responses this is basically impossible (partner would've bid 1♥ over 1♣ with hearts). Even if partner does raise the hearts, it's possible that 4♥ is our proper spot.