"standard" acol bid?

[cheech]

Hand 3S, 4H, 2D, 4C. 17 points

(British) Acol opening: what is the systemically correct opening in 1st seat?

[david_c]

Either 1♣ or 1♥. In Acol you are allowed to use judgement as to which suit to open. So it depends on suit quality, etc.

 

Having said that, some people generally prefer 1♣ and others generally prefer 1♥. In the EBU's "Standard English" system, you're supposed to open 1♥.

[Walddk]

In the EBU's "Standard English" system, you're supposed to open 1♥.

Which is quite silly.

 

QJ3

AQ85

74

AKJ6

 

1♥ - 1♠

?

 

1NT I suppose when you play 12-14 NT. You won't have that problem if you open 1♣ even if the response is still 1♠. You just use the 2♦ ambiguous reverse as described by me in another thread some time ago (can't remember when).

 

I think it was named "2D artificial reverse".

 

1NT is not exactly a great rebid after 1♥ - 1♠ when responder raises to 3NT on

 

AK104

K73

82

Q832

 

And why would he not? Any other game but 3NT is where you want to be.

 

AK104

K7

862

Q832

 

You still don't want to be in 3NT that depends on diamonds breaking 4-4.

 

Roland

 

Found my post about the 2♦ reverse now:

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=8311&hl=

[awm]

You don't really need Roland's artificial reverses to bid this hand. A couple more reasonable possibilities:

 

Playing sound minor suit openings (a reasonable idea in a weak NT system):

 

1♣ - 1♠ - 2♠. Here 2♠ shows a strong notrump with a spade fit, or equivalent distributional values. With 13-14 points and a singleton we've a roughly equivalent hand. There's still plenty of space for partner to look for the best game.

 

Otherwise we could try:

 

1♥ - 1♠ - 2♣; planning to rebid 2♠ over any action by partner (including a correction to hearts).

 

In general a notrump rebid with a small doubleton side suit and three-card support (to two honors!) will often come to grief. I don't think this has much to do with your choice of opening a club or a heart... and in fact I'd be glad to be playing weak notrumps here because the standard (strong NT) auction could easily go 1NT-2♣-2♥-3NT-Pass.

[EricK]

In the EBU's "Standard English" system, you're supposed to open 1♥.

Which is quite silly.

 

QJ3

AQ85

74

AKJ6

 

1♥ - 1♠

?

 

1NT I suppose when you play 12-14 NT. You won't have that problem if you open 1♣ even if the response is still 1♠. You just use the 2♦ ambiguous reverse as described by me in another thread some time ago (can't remember when).

 

I think it was named "2D artificial reverse".

 

1NT is not exactly a great rebid after 1♥ - 1♠ when responder raises to 3NT on

 

AK104

K73

82

Q832

 

And why would he not? Any other game but 3NT is where you want to be.

 

AK104

K7

862

Q832

 

You still don't want to be in 3NT that depends on diamonds breaking 4-4.

 

Roland

That's not really a relevant objection!

 

Playing 15-17 NT the bidding would just go 1NT 2♣ 2♥ 3NT and nobody would bat an eyelid.

 

Ironically, on the first hand you quoted, the best way to avoid 3NT is to open 1♥. That immediately tells responder that ♥ might be a playable suit.

 

If you want to avoid playing 3NT when one suit is wide open then you should either play a system which checks for unstopped suits after 1NT opening or rebid, or you shouldn't bid or rebid 1NT unless you have stops in all unbid suits. But you can do this whether you open 1♥ or 1♣ on such hands

 

Playing a 4 card major system you should open the 4 card major unless you have good reason not to. if you don't want to open a 4 card major on these hands you should play a 5 card major system!

 

Eric

[Walddk]

That's not really a relevant objection!

 

Playing 15-17 NT the bidding would just go 1NT 2♣ 2♥ 3NT and nobody would bat an eyelid.

I would, because then your NT system is not good enough. Garozzo's is the best and you would not jump to 3NT over a 2♥ response with that hand! 2♠ is the next step, showing 4 spades and asking for shape.

 

Yes, you can show 3-4-2-4 eventually.

 

Roland

[EricK]

That's not really a relevant objection!

 

Playing 15-17 NT the bidding would just go 1NT 2♣ 2♥ 3NT and nobody would bat an eyelid.

I would, because then your NT system is not good enough. Garozzo's is the best and you would not jump to 3NT over a 2♥ response with that hand! 2♠ is the next step, showing 4 spades and asking for shape.

 

Yes, you can show 3-4-2-4 eventually.

 

Roland

I agree that you can play methods to identify weak suits for NT. But that doesn't explain why 1♥ 1♠ 1NT is more likely to miss the best game than 1♣ 1♠ 1NT. Which is why I pointed out that your objection to opening 1♥ by quoting those hands was invalid.

 

1♣ 1♠ 1NT allows a fake reverse into 2♦ but

1♥ 1♠ 1NT allows a 2♦ NMF or XYZ GF or whatever you want to play.

 

Eric