preempt x xx ?

[42]

Hi all!

This hand caused bad dreams last night. I was south.

I neither like W's opening nor the Dbl of my p, and the longer I think it over, I am not sure anymore if my 3♠ is ok. What is common sense here?

 

[hv=d=w&v=b&n=sak8ha9863d103cq52&w=s2h1052dkqj9765ca8&e=sq764hk4da2ckj976&s=sj10953hqj7d84c1043]399|300|Scoring: IMP

Bidding:

3♦ Dbl Rdbl 3♠

4♦ 4♠ Dbl all pass[/hv]

 

Caren

[Gerben42]

3♠ was okay. ♠ is your longest suit, partner asked you to bid one. You did so. End of story.

 

I'm still undecided which of dbl and 4♠ was more insane, as both are.

[helene_t]

I disagree. Dbl might not be an expert bid but it makes some sense. With a nice hand and only two cards in the enemy suit, pass is risky, and 3♥ would surely be insane.

 

4♠, on the other hand, makes no sense at all. Given partner's 3♠ bid, North has a minimum if not a sub-minimum. No reason to bid again, certainly not after East's rdbl.

[Walddk]

1. East-West seem to be playing very sound pre-empts.

 

2. North's double is very aggressive.

 

3. North's raise to 4♠ is much too aggressive.

 

4. South is innocent.

 

Roland

[Finch]

I agree with Roland.

[Chamaco]

Doubling a preempt , all vuln, with 13 semibalanced hcp is way too light IMO.

I too agree with Roland on all points.

[mr1303]

Can I say something about west raising his own pre-empt?

 

But apart from that North's 4S bid is ultra criminal. Suppose you don't bid 3S, what else are you going to do?. 3D XX is worse than 3S X.

[Free]

Doubling a preempt , all vuln, with 13 semibalanced hcp is way too light IMO.

I too agree with Roland on all points.

What's semibalanced about a 5332? Just make it worse: doubling a preempt, all V with balanced 13 pointer :)

[inquiry]

I don't know what North was thinking. It is clear, he must not know what he was thinking either.

[luis]

Sick double, the 3♠ bid was fine.

[42]

Thx so far, you all saved my soulpeace :)

I was thinking whether I promised more than I had because I also could have been passing to express weakness (??), partner can bid on after the XX, say 3♥, and I can show my ♠s then. I wondered if I mislead him though the XX should have been a warning. The more I thought the more confusion... He is an expert (and turned red with no return)

Caren

[Walddk]

He is an expert (and turned red with no return)

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people put on their profiles if I were you. If the double and the raise to 4♠ are expert bidding, I prefer to be a novice.

 

Roland

[Trumpace]

He is an expert (and turned red with no return)

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people put on their profiles if I were you. If the double and the raise to 4♠ are expert bidding, I prefer to be a novice.

 

Roland

I have seen some experts bid very very aggressively, after realizing how bad the opponents are. Maybe this was the case here... but that is losing bridge, as you are probably throwing away the edge you have. Maybe this person was one such expert.

 

There is a difference between 'aggressive' and 'crazy', though. :D

[luis]

He is an expert (and turned red with no return)

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people put on their profiles if I were you. If the double and the raise to 4♠ are expert bidding, I prefer to be a novice.

 

Roland

I wouldn't judge for one hand.

I agree the double is horrible but I can stand one or two horrible decisions by my pd in a session, maybe that's because I make one or two horrible bids per session as well :-)

[mikeh]

I agree with Roland, both about your bid and the inadvisability of relying upon the skill level of self-professed experts.

 

I hope unanimous support your 3♠ bid received (and deserves) allows you to sleep comfortably: :D

 

 

I suspect that there have been discussions in earlier threads on this site about the ranking inflation, so I will confine my comments to the observation that such people are deluding themselves as much as they are misleading others. I think that any expert (and probably any advanced) player can tell within one board roughly how competent another player is, and certainly within 5 or 6 boards.

 

However, the same psychological quirk that gives us these incompetent 'experts' and 'WC' players has made shows such as American Idol so popular.... much of the attraction of the show seems to be the presentation of the absolute worst performers, who almost invariably appear to believe they have talent. The rest of us can tell within 10 seconds that they cannot sing. Too bad we do not have a Simon Cowell on BBO to give these players a reality check :)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

First off all, I would suggest you stop playing

bridge, you take it to seriously, if such a board

causes bad dreams.

 

Dbl was ..., well aggressive is a nice word, and

the raise to 4S belongs in the same category.

 

The same can be said about the Redouble made

by East and the 4D bid made by West, but you

did not ask about the East-West bidding.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[inquiry]

Too bad we do not have a Simon Cowell on BBO to give these players a reality check :D

Simon would be banned in a milli-second for being rude to others. It is a shame in some ways that is the rule, because I have seen plenty of rude people who claim to be expert or world class that I would LOVE to set straight.

[Chamaco]

He is an expert (and turned red with no return)

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what people put on their profiles if I were you. If the double and the raise to 4♠ are expert bidding, I prefer to be a novice.

 

Roland

I wouldn't judge for one hand.

I agree the double is horrible but I can stand one or two horrible decisions by my pd in a session, maybe that's because I make one or two horrible bids per session as well :-)

I think Luis hits the point here.

I know the "expert" in question.

 

You can figure him out a bit like "Victor Mollo's Hog", almost systematically overbidding because of his good card skills.

 

Whether these pros/cons qualifies for "Expert" I cannot tell.

[42]

First off all, I would suggest you stop playing bridge, you take it to seriously

*hehe* that was more than 1 time an idea of mine, believe me, but I still have the virus (and a little hope to improve)... What shall I do when I became old and grey? Since I doubt that men will still be interested then, playing bridge and sipping a cup of tea is a nice idea :D Some years ago I was really impressed by a VERY old lady with a big cigar in her mouth, who looked like an easy opp; 15 minutes later we went away with 2 zeros (it happened at a tourney in Denmark). THAT is a target, isn't it?

 

Back to the case here:

I know my p from yesterday personally and like him! Should I have been sounding "to lament" on him: that was not my intention!! I was just wondering if I overlooked something (like passing as option).

Caren

[Walddk]

I know my p from yesterday personally and like him! Should I have been sounding "to lament" on him: that was not my intention!!

No no, you should just have asked him in which lottery he won his bridge licence :D Expert on lottery perhaps, that's not bad at all. Can he give me the numbers for Wednesday next week please?

 

Roland

[Double !]

Back to the hand at issue, (or is it "issue at hand"?)

 

What, if anything, would be the difference between an immediate bid of 3S over the redbl, and a pass followed by a correction to spades after P takes action. I have my own suspicions, but not sure if they are consistent with other people's interpretations.

TIA

 

DHL

[the hog]

The X is very aggressive and not my style, the 3S bid is automatic, the 4S bid is off with the pixies.

 

(Thought I'd better post this in case others thought I was your partner on this hand).

:blink:

[helene_t]

I was thinking whether I promised more than I had because I also could have been passing to express weakness (??), partner can bid on after the XX, say 3♥, and I can show my ♠s then. I wondered if I mislead him though the XX should have been a warning.

No, if East made a bid you must pass to show weakness, but after a business redouble you must bid as you did, pass would leave the choice to parter.

 

It is true that since you have spades you willprobably get a chance to bid them even if you pass, but that is not the standard way of showing a weak hand with spades. You can make the agreement that pass-and-correct is stronger than a dirrect bid, in the unlikely event that you have a strong hand after the rdbl.

[Brandal]

I disagree. Dbl might not be an expert bid but it makes some sense. With a nice hand and only two cards in the enemy suit, pass is risky, and 3♥ would surely be insane.

I fail to see how 3H is insane and dbl ok on this

hand.

 

Partner likely to bid 3S on a 4 card does not

appeal to me when I can show him a 5 card

on the 3 level instead of the 4 level.

[helene_t]

I disagree. Dbl might not be an expert bid but it makes some sense. With a nice hand and only two cards in the enemy suit, pass is risky, and 3♥ would surely be insane.

I fail to see how 3H is insane and dbl ok on this

hand.

 

Partner likely to bid 3S on a 4 card does not

appeal to me when I can show him a 5 card

on the 3 level instead of the 4 level.

3♥ would work better than dbl if partner has four spades and three hearts. But he could also have one or zero hearts. Or two hearts and five spades. Or 3226.

 

I haven't done any simulations but I would be surprised if 3♥ turned out to be more succesful in the long run than dbl.

 

I agree with other posters that pass is better than dbl, though.