sartaj1 Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Is anyone aware of a weak NT pair playing a different system in fourth seat ?Me and pd play weak NT, 5 cd MIn 3rd seat vul, we play 14-16 NT and 4 cd MIn 4th seat, we switch back to weak NT and 5 cdM. We have observed that 4th seat opening auctions rarely get seriously competitive, so the natural meaning of our actions is not pulling its full weight. However, we have had a few auctions where it goes 1D - 1NT and we miss a 15/16 opposite 9 game. Since our partnership style is to try and bid game on every hand, this is a serious liability. I am wondering if some others have faced similar issues and tried some new approach (and how they fared)...An example i can think of isLike 1C = any strong NT or clubsRest natural, not strong NT. ps. Pls be aware that i have posted the same question to RGB as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Gromov-Petrunin play weak in 1st and 2nd, 14-16 in 3rd and 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I've seen mini NT 9-11 or so first 2 positions and then strtong (or slightly stronger at least) 3rd and 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I play 10-13 in 1-3 and 14-17 in 4th. Our weak 2s (including 2C) are 9(8)-12 and very undisciplined, so pd rarely has 10. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I play 11-14 in 1&2 and 13-16 in 3&4 (strong ♣ systems). Since we open light in 1&2 seat, there's no need to open light in 3&4 seat, so we keep bidding solid over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I have seen 11-13 & 5 card majors in 1&2 along with 14-16 and 4 card majors in 3&4. The rationale of switching to 4 card majors is that you have lost the pre-emptive effect of 1NT but you get it back by the pre-emptive effect of 1M. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 However, we have had a few auctions where it goes 1D - 1NT and we miss a 15/16 opposite 9 game Don't include 9 counts in your 1nt response. Have 1nt=5-8, bid 2d or 2c with 9+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Doesn't Meckwell vary the NT ranges depending on seat and vulnerability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 "Doesn't Meckwell vary the NT ranges depending on seat and vulnerability?" They play 9-12 inNV 1-3, 14-16 else. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 AFAIK Meckwell only play 9-12 1st+2nd seat NV against vul. As Stephen says, if you are putting 15-16 flat in your 1D opener then make a 2/1 on most 9 counts. Personally I'd rather stick with 14-16 NT and 4 card suits in 4th seat - IIRC 14-16 is more common than 12-14 in this position, and being able to make lead directing openings is useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I have played several weak ranges in 1st and 2nd (10-12, 11-13, 11-14), and always combined this with strong in 3d and 4th. In a big ♣ context, 14-16, in standard methods 15-17 or 14-16. I see no advantage to opening weak 1N in 4th seat. Several bad things can happen: The most common is missing a 4-4 major fit. By definition, it is unlikely that partner has the values to move over a weak 1N, so cannot afford to stayman.You can remove this risk by restricting 1N to hands without a major, but now you will be easier to defend against and the bid will come up far less frequently. You have no game with a weak notrump in 4th seat, so you lose the advantage that ordinarily flows from the use of a narrowly defined opening bid combined with (for any experienced partnership) a well-designed constructive bidding method.For many partnerships, their most accurate methods are after 1N: why negate that edge by using 1N in situations where your best tools are irrelevant? You may, especially if vulnerable, score a minus in 1N when 2 of a minor was superior, but unreachable for you. And what good things happen? Well, you may preempt the opps. LHO, having passed in 1st seat may have an overcall of a minor opening and yet be forced to pass 1N. Of course, when they can make 2M, they may also go plus against 1N. You may right-side 1N, but that is a random event, and, besides, maybe you'd right side it if you opened 'normally' anyway. I know that I like playing against pairs who open weak 1N in 3rd and 4th chair... so that tells me something :rolleyes: As for 4 card majors: I am a true believer: especially when combined with a detailed drury method, of which several are widely available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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