Leads, Signals, and Discards

[Double !]

I have played with people from different parts of the world and have felt that what might the standard card to lead, the meanings of signals, and the standard meanings of discards might vary from place to place. For example, while many players in the states play udca (upside-down count and attitude) signals, the very fact that they are referred to as being "upside-down" implies that they differ from a standard. In the states, low-hi to show an odd number of cards, low to discourage/ hi to encourage, higher of touching honors, etc. has constituted "standard carding" (whatever that means anymore) for as long as I am aware.

 

So, I am curious to know, not what you or your partnership plays, but what forms of lead, signals, and discarding are considered to be "standard" where you live and/or have lived in the past. IMO, this is a very important issue to know playing online. I have witnessed so many carding misunderstandings between people from different locations who had little time other than to say "hi" or "hi P" before being thrust into action with the next deal and then later having someone become upset due to a defensive blunder based on different styles.

As usual, Thanx in advance for your responses.

 

DHL

[temp3600]

This should be pretty close to the standard in France :

 

** suit contract.

 

3rd and 5th leads.

A from AK(x...)

 

attitude > count > suit preference.

 

** NT.

 

4th best.

highest or second highest from a bad holding.

the opening lead of a K shows 3+ honors and asks for count or the unblocking of the J.

on A, Q and anything else partner signals attitude or count in the classical way.

 

first discard attitude or Lavinthal (suit preference), no clear standard.

[pigpenz]

on the count part present or original?

[luke warm]

i think standard is 4th best from length, hi (or maybe middle) if you don't particularly want the suit continued and low if you have honor 3rd

[Double !]

i think standard is 4th best from length, hi (or maybe middle) if you don't particularly want the suit continued and low if you have honor 3rd

In the U.S.

but elsewhere?

[Double !]

on the count part present or original?

Both?

you decide

thanx for responding.

[Fluffy]

std in this part of europe is:

 

3/5 against suit

2/4 against NT

3/5 in partners suit

highest from a sequence.

 

high encouraging

high even

[Double !]

Question:

 

when you say 2/4 vs. NT: I understand the 4 to mean 4th best, but I am not clear about the 2 (does that mean high from a doubleton, low from a doubleton, or something else)?

 

Thanx

[guggie]

depends on the level. In Holland basic teaching is high low count and attitude, and 4th best against NT, attitude against suit

IN higer competition carding can be either hi low or UDCA, roman signals are quite popular, and leads are common 3d/5th

[EarlPurple]

in the UK standard means high cards are:

 

- in attitude signals, showing encouragement. But an honour denies the honour immediately above it.

- in count signals, showing an even number

- in suit-preference signals, indicating a high-ranking suit.

 

The general "standard" is also to play attitude on partner's lead, count on declarer's lead. Some change this to attitude primarily, then count if partner doesn't want attitude, then suit-preference if partner doesn't want either.

 

More flexible players make the signal they want to make and hope partner reads it right.

 

Many will, of course, invert the signals, usually both or neither, sometimes just attitude. I've never seen anyone playing high-low to encourage or an odd-number.

[kenberg]

It seems to me that if the partnership agreement between two US players is: "Std leads and cding pard?" "OK" then they have agreed to lead the cards that are in boldface on the back of an ACBL convention card. This doesn't cover all situations (Against 1NT-3NT partner leads an ace. Am I to drop an honor or signal attitude with Q92? Once upon a time the Q was to be dropped. Perhaps this is still standard, perhaps not.) Their agreement means that they will play low on partner's lead to discourage a continuation and when/if they give count on opponent's leads it will be high-low=even. If they discard on an opponent's lead then a small card discourages in that suit. Opening leads are fourth best from length with or without an honor. I am not arguing that this is or is not optimal. I think it is what an agreement to play standard should mean to two US players.

 

I think if someone expects more understanding than this from such a brief conversation about methods they are in for a disappointment. I personally like 3/5 leads against suit contracts but with the conversation above I lead my fourth best.

 

 

Playing with people from other areas of the world there will of course be more misunderstandings. Suggesting that they should be reasonable and do it our way probably will not be greeted with enthusiasm.

 

Side note: There was a question about the meaning of 2/4 leads against NT. I understand this to mean that from 853 the 5 is led (second highest) and from 8532 either the 5 or the 2 is led, the latter if leader wishes to encourage a return of the suit from partner. I don't know if my understanding is correct.

 

Ken

[han]

In the west of Ann Arbor, Michigan, US (where I live), people play upside down carding throughout. In the south, people play standard carding, and vary between Lavinthal and Roman discards. Northern bridge players play standard count but upside down attitude (and they also lead 4th best against suits). In the east live only rubber bridge players, and they don't signal.

[Double !]

In the east live only rubber bridge players, and they don't signal.

rofl

[Finch]

Just to extend EarlPurple's comments on the UK:

 

Standard leads are 4th best against both suits and NT, 2nd highest from a poor four card suit. There isn't really a standard from 3 low (if anything I think middle is most common). Top of a doubleton.

 

Another UK standard which is different from the US is the King is the strong lead against NT (asking for unblock, or if you can't unblock, count). Strong 10s are common but not standard - I wouldn't assume I was playing them without discussion.

 

3rd & 5th leads against suits are extremely common among the better players, but they certainly aren't standard.

[the hog]

Land of Oz -

 

4th highest

Overlead

 

Better players:

Getting increasingly popular with the cognoscenti - Combine leads

[Fluffy]

Question:

 

when you say 2/4 vs. NT: I understand the 4 to mean 4th best, but I am not clear about the 2 (does that mean high from a doubleton, low from a doubleton, or something else)?

 

Thanx

Yeah sorry, ,this is not standard around the world, it means you lead 4th with Hxxx, low with Hxx but second from xxxx and xxxxx, so its kind of mixture from attitude and 4th.

[helene_t]

A lot of people over here play Roman carding in all situations. Not sure what it means. Presumably you must lead your fourth-oddest card against a notrump contract.

[Gerben42]

In Poland the standard is 2nd 4th and low even and encouraging (lots of distribution signals).

 

In Germany beginners are taught high positive and even but the standard is low encouraging and even. Leads always 3rd and 5th, current count.

 

I have once tried to explain this by noticing that Germany is between France and Poland. In France high is positive and even, leads are 3rd and 5th. In Poland high is negative and odd, leads are 2nd and 4th. In Germany they use French leads and Polish signals...

[ArcLight]

Whats a "Combine" lead?

[Double !]

In Poland the standard is 2nd 4th and low even and encouraging (lots of distribution signals).

 

In Germany beginners are taught high positive and even but the standard is low encouraging and even. Leads always 3rd and 5th, current count.

 

I have once tried to explain this by noticing that Germany is between France and Poland. In France high is positive and even, leads are 3rd and 5th. In Poland high is negative and odd, leads are 2nd and 4th. In Germany they use French leads and Polish signals...

Sounds to me like a diplomatic compromise.

 

BTW: I really appreciate these responses. As you can determine by reading these various posts, there are significant differences that vary from region to region, especially, according to Hannie, the eastern part of the USA where all the rubber bridge players refuse to signal (lolololol). (Maybe it has to do with the economy.)

 

Would it be possible to hear from some players from eastern as well as western Asia?

 

Thank you in advance, as usual.

 

DHL

[mikestar]

In the ACBL, what is deemed standard is pretty much what Watson had in his book in the 1930's with two exceptions: We no longer lead the honor from Jxx or Txx, and there is no standard lead from xxx.

 

Signals are

Attitude: High = encouraging

Count: High = even

Suit preference: High = higher suit

 

NT leads

fourth best

low from Hxx

hign from doubletons

A = asks unblock or count

K from AK or KQ

Q from QJ, etc.

 

Suit leads

fourth best

low from Hxx (exept Axx)

high from doubletons

A denies the King

K from AK or KQ

Q from QJ, etc.

 

In many areas of North America few partnerships play all of this--it's more a set of standard defaults the the opponents can assume if nothing contrary is marked on the CC.

[the hog]

Whats a "Combine" lead?

This web site gives a good illustration of Combine leads. They are the creation of one of the best bridge theorists around, Lukasz Slawinski.

 

http://www.new-bridge.net/

[Chamaco]

LEADS

 

In Italy the vast majority of players plays either:

 

a. attitude lead from unknown length (it's surprising how often the count lead helps declarer more than pard)

 

b. 3rd/5th vs any contract (basically hi-low to show even cards, low-hi to show odd no. of cards)

 

Top players of course play more sophisticated systems of leads but if you happen to play on BBO with italians, that's the most likely system of leads

 

CARDING

 

Most people in Italy plays that an odd card is encouraging, an even card discouraging, and std count.

 

Quite a few people play std carding (hi enc, low disc), and you'll rarely meet udca carding unless playing vs serious competitive players.

[Chamaco]

Another UK standard which is different from the US is the King is the strong lead against NT (asking for unblock, or if you can't unblock, count).

 

This is common also in Italy: well, to say the truth, most (low-midflight) players ignore altogether leads asking for count/unblock, but, among those who do agree it, the vast majority plays K -> unblock/count.

 

Also, quite a bunch of players plays the "Jack denies" agreement on lead.

 

"MUD" from xxx, or even Txx/Jxx is most frequently played