Skyhigh

[Gerben42]

Which of the following bids do you disagree with?

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=saxxxhkxdaktxxckx&e=sjhajtxxxxdjxxcxx]266|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Auction:

1♦ (3♣) 3♥ (3♠)

Dbl (Pass) 4♥ (Pass)

6NT

[luis]

Is this a real question? Everybody will vote for 6N.

[mikeh]

I do not like 3♥, but I understand it.

 

6N, on the other hand. reveals an lack of understanding about the game.

[awm]

I think the forcing 3♥ bid on 7 hcp is the problem here. While 6NT is something of a push, it's not ridiculous. Give 3♥ bidder a less-than-minimum hand like the one below and 6NT is ice cold. Even if it needs a finesse in spades or diamonds, odds will be good after the preempt.

 

x

AQxxxxx

Qxx

xx

 

Holding a very long suit and very few points or defensive values, I think responder's call is 4♥. Hopefully this isn't a splinter or a fit-jump or something. I agree that a PASS with responder's hand is losing bridge, but showing game values on this hand is also quite a distortion.

[pbleighton]

3H is marginal (but I might do it).

 

6NT is terrible - pd has told you that his bid was very light and distributional.

 

Peter

[mike777]

6nt is worst.

 

Prefer 4h over 3h.

[Walddk]

6NT, a serious overbid. 3♥ by East is fair; he is cramped for room and therefore under pressure. Don't punish him.

 

Roland

[Free]

6NT obviously

[Gerben42]

Please read the question. Which of the following bidS!

I am not asking what is the worst bid. This hand has some interesting bidding decisions and all you do is say how terrible one of the bids is.

 

1st decision: To bid 3♥ or something else, or rather pass.

2nd decision: To pull partner's penalty double of 3♠ at favourable.

3rd decision: What to do after partner's 4♥ bid.

[Walddk]

I think we made it pretty clear. We (I at least) disagree with 6NT. The other bids are just fine.

 

Roland

[Free]

Please read the question. Which of the following bidS!

I am not asking what is the worst bid. This hand has some interesting bidding decisions and all you do is say how terrible one of the bids is.

 

1st decision: To bid 3♥ or something else, or rather pass.

2nd decision: To pull partner's penalty double of 3♠ at favourable.

3rd decision: What to do after partner's 4♥ bid.

There's only 1 bid I disagree with, so perhaps I just shouldn't reply to such threads anymore? :unsure:

[luke warm]

i play nfb in this situation, so i'd have to disagree with both 4H and 6NT... i'm torn on whether or not i like the double, since i'd probably bid 4H myself

[Gerben42]

Oh well... I was hoping some of the other decisions would also bring up more discussion. It is of course clear what went wrong (East, with 7♥, thought like the panel that pass was out, and got punished for it)

 

I personally agree that 6NT was by far the worst. Didn't mind to receive the top but when asked I didn't think it was an outrageous bid.

[Wiste1]

What about 4♥ instead of 3♥ ?

[Winstonm]

The interesting thing here is what should be the difference between 3H and 4H?

It's obvious in the problem that there was a misunderstanding, so assuming everyone at the table can play I don't feel laying blame is a good idea but resolving what went wrong is certainly a worthwhile endeavor.

 

I'm inclined to think that when under pressure you sometimes have to "make your best guess" and then live with it. With the East hand, I'd guess that in this auction our best spot would probably be 4H, so I'd just bid it, right or wrong.

 

With a stronger hand, I'd want to have more maneuvering room, so I'm of the mind that 3H here would be a good hand.

 

The odd man out here is the decent hand, invitational stregnth. With these, it seems nothing more can be done than to try to guage O/D ratio and double with decent defense and bid either 3H or 4H with high O/D ratio. Certainly we will get to the wrong spot sometimes, but that is why people still preempt - they work sometimes.

 

Winston

[awm]

I still maintain that 3♥ is the worst bid of the auction. I think 4♥ by responder at first turn is clear. That bid should show a fairly weak hand with many good hearts -- exactly what this hand has to offer. 3♥ suggests a hand which is uncertain about either strain (i.e. only five hearts or six not-spectacular ones) or level (slam is too likely to sign off).

 

Opener's double is questionable. The club king is poorly placed and the spades are not a particularly defensive holding (with KJxx of spades I think double would be clear, but Axxx is probably not the right holding unless the spots are better than indicated). Most of the time this 3♠ bid is fitted or lead-directional and opponents will retreat to clubs anyway. A 3NT call from opener might be better. However, I don't think double is clearly wrong; partner could certainly hold fewer hearts and more spades, in which case this could be a misfitting hand.

 

The 4♥ pull is fine, it should show very long hearts and no desire to defend. However, I think the 3♥ call already overstated the hand. Any of the following would be reasonable 3♥ bids followed by 4♥ pulls:

 

-

AQxxxxxx

Qxx

xx

 

(somewhat slammish, but with xx in clubs and opposite potential spade wastage...)

 

-

AQJxxxx

xxxx

Ax

 

(nice hand, but opponents have nine spades at least, and we're not taking many hearts...)

 

Opener's 6NT is certainly a gamble, but notice that it's excellent opposite either of the above hands. Opener was not expecting a seven count with two useless jacks and only one of the top three honors in hearts. In fact, I think it's 100% clear to make a slam try on opener's hand -- partner's 3♥ followed by 4♥ almost surely indicates slam interest! With a weak hand and enough hearts to bid 4♥ solo, responder should have bid 4♥ at first turn. With doubts about strain, responder would either pass 3♠ doubled or revert to diamonds at the four level. The most likely explanation of the bidding is that responder holds a mild slam try in hearts, but was deterred either by the double of 3♠ (i.e. holding spade shortage) or by fear of multiple losers in clubs. Opener expects to have the ``magic hand'' with a club stopper, fitting honor in hearts, and no wastage opposite a singleton spade.

 

Now perhaps opener's blasting 6NT was precipitous; he could try keycard or something. But it may well be important that the contract be played from opener's side to prevent two quick club losers, and after 4NT it will be difficult to stop at a low level in notrump.

[pbleighton]

"In fact, I think it's 100% clear to make a slam try on opener's hand -- partner's 3♥ followed by 4♥ almost surely indicates slam interest!"

 

To me, it indicates the reverse - a long heart suit with no defense.

 

Peter

[flytoox]

I dont like 3H. I prefer 4H to 3H. 3H is too much a distortion. I dont think 6N is that bad. Given pd a game force hand, 6N is likely on. Yes, 3H then 4H shows a weak hand, but with x, AQJxxxx, Qx, xxx, you would still bid 3H then 4H.

[mike777]

Let us clear up a misconception.

 

3H is game force, it does not show a "weak hand". It does not promise a weak hand, show a weak hand or infer a weak hand OK? Yes, partner is bidding under great pressure so let us cut them some slack, but a weak hand, never.

 

Pass is a weak hand ok? Any other bid shows some values not weak.

 

If you want 3h to show a weak hand, fine, but that is an alert bid.

 

On this hand prefer 4H but understand 3H.

[pbleighton]

"3H is game force, it does not show a "weak hand". It does not promise a weak hand, show a weak hand or infer a weak hand OK? Yes, partner is bidding under great pressure so let us cut them some slack, but a weak hand, never."

 

It is a game force, but it may be a hand with a long suit and no outside defense, as is the case here. This hand is marginal, but 3H is not a bad bid. Pass would not have been bad, either. If you bid 3H, then you have to pull partner's double.

 

BTW, I agree that 4H instead of 3H has merit.

 

Peter

[Fluffy]

Oh well... I was hoping some of the other decisions would also bring up more discussion. It is of course clear what went wrong (East, with 7♥, thought like the panel that pass was out, and got punished for it)

 

I personally agree that 6NT was by far the worst. Didn't mind to receive the top but when asked I didn't think it was an outrageous bid.

3♥ is very poor, its such bad bid that I would really want to call it the worst bid (specially so I can break the consensous :) ), but 6NT is so horrible that I cannot live with it.

[the hog]

3H is an overbid, but is bid under pressure. 6NT is totally ridiculous.

[temp3600]

"3H is game force, it does not show a "weak hand". It does not promise a weak hand, show a weak hand or infer a weak hand OK? Yes, partner is bidding under great pressure so let us cut them some slack, but a weak hand, never."

 

It is a game force, but it may be a hand with a long suit and no outside defense, as is the case here.  This hand is marginal, but 3H is not a bad bid. Pass would not have been bad, either.  If you bid 3H, then you have to pull partner's double.

 

BTW, I agree that 4H instead of 3H has merit.

 

Peter

I think it is a bad idea to include in the 3♥ bid hands with just a long suit and little defense. It seems way simpler and also better structured (to me :)) to bid those hands with an immediate 4♥, and keep 3♥ for good game-forcing hands, either with a self-sufficient heart suit, or a decent suit and a hand still unsure about the strain.

 

Another point. NS are vulnerable here and EW are not. I think this explains opener's double (at matchpoints) because he otherwise has a poor hand, way too offensive, to double. Now if we consider that responder is removing this double, which seemed like a good score already, with a hand good enough to bid a game forcing 3H on the previous turn, it is, as awm said in his post, a clear slam try. The doubleton HK is a great card, and 6NT to protect the CK (and since it's matchpoints), doesn't sound unreasonable, if maybe a little aggressive.

[mike777]

Another point. NS are vulnerable here and EW are not. I think this explains opener's double (at matchpoints) because he otherwise has a poor hand, way too offensive, to double. Now if we consider that responder is removing this double, which seemed like a good score already, with a hand good enough to bid a game forcing 3H on the previous turn, it is, as awm said in his post, a clear slam try. The doubleton HK is a great card, and 6NT to protect the CK (and since it's matchpoints), doesn't sound unreasonable, if maybe a little aggressive.

All of these are wonderful points to pass 4H and get a plus score at MP yes?

6nt seems like shooting for a top or playing pard for a perfect hand?

 

btw perhaps this was a short BBO MP match and shooting for tops is winning bbo bridge?

[han]

1D and 4H are impeccable. I think that 3H is not good, but 6NT is truly awful.