Multi, playing against

[kenberg]

2D(multi)-P-2H- to me.

 

I hold

 

6

AT743

AKQJT2

8

 

 

 

Here in the US, Multi players must provide an ACBL approved defense. This can be found at

http://web2.acbl.org/defensedatabase/3b.htm

We use option 1. The relevant material is:

 

After 2 - P - 2M

Double = takeout

2N = 15-18. Respond as to 2N opening.

3M or 4M = Natural

4m = 5+/5+ in that minor and a major. 4d over 4c asks for the major; 4h over 4d= pass if hearts or correct to spades

 

 

So: I bid 4D and partner bid 4H. Now what?

 

I passed. OK?

 

 

Partner's major holding is

AK3

KQ52

His minor holding is trash.

 

Relax, I am not out to beat up on partner or to condemn myself. Rather, supposing that we wish to have agreements beyond that provided by ACBL, what are your thoughts? For example, if partner bids 4S rather than the pass or correct bid of 4H, what would that show? Of course he does not really know the opponents can not cash two or even three tops in clubs so there is also the issue of whether he should do anything. But assuming he does wish to move, what should subsequent bids mean? Can anyone provide a coherent auction to reach 6H?

 

 

I'll be pleased to hear your thoughts,

Ken

[inquiry]

You may want to look at... http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/defend-multi-2d.htm

[flytoox]

I think your pd should bid 4S, showing slam interest in heart suit but will contend with 4S if spade is pd's suit. Not sure if this is clear, but it think it is logical.

[awm]

I don't think the issue here is the Multi itself, but responses to bids which show two-suited hands of which one is unknown. The same thing would occur with a leaping michaels bid over a natural 2♦, and in many other situations. In general I recommend that in these types of situations, the lowest notrump bid be used as an asking call for suit and strength. Rebids are:

 

♣ = lower suit, weaker strength

♦ = higher suit, weaker hand

♥ = lower suit, stronger hand

♠ = higher suit, stronger hand

 

This is useful after a michaels bid as well, or bids like woolsey/capp/dont over notrump. So for the hand in question:

 

2♦ (multi) - 4♣ (clubs+major) - Pass - 4NT (forcing ask!)

 

At this point leaping michaels bidder can bid 5♣ of 5♥ to show hearts, and partner can actually cue 5♠ to make a mild try at a grand in case of a club void.

 

Yes, it is hard to work out the residues (i.e. you might get too high opposite 0 spades 2 clubs) but it's tough to work this out at the level of this auction.

[Winstonm]

I understood the concept of Roman Jumps (AKA Leaping Michael's) was to show a very good hand, not some decent to goodish 2 suiters.

 

x, A10xxx, AKQJxx, x is a Roman Jump.

 

QJxxx, x, AKQJxx, x can be bid with a pass followed by Michael's.

 

If this is the understanding, then the responding hand is too good to not move toward slam - 4N has to be a general try and 5N is pick a slam: if partner bids his minor at the 6 level, responder bids 6H to play in the major.

 

Responder's holdings in the majors strongly suggest 6511 pattern...how else could 4D bidder have a stong hand missing so many major cards? I think I'd just take the bull by the horns and bid 5N and end in 6H...if we are unlucky, partner will have: void, A10xxx, AKQJxx, xx.

I don't see a sane way to find that out, though, because a direct 4S has to show a total unwillingness to play in hearts and is therefore not a cue bid.

 

Winston

[kenberg]

Thanks for the responses. I will comment some, and invite further thoughts.

 

As AWM notes, this discussion can apply to the weak 2D-(Roman 4C) auction showing clubs and a major. and probably to other similar auctions. The 4NT asking bid sounds good to me. Given my actual hand, which really needs a fair amout of help, I am not so sure this qualifies for a strong response to 4NT (given the agreement that already 4D is supposed to be good). Clearly some definition would be needed to make this approach effective.

 

I agree with winsonm that my 4D bid should show quite a good hand. Partner and I have not discussed this enough that he would be willing to bet his house I must have hearts rather than spades but indeed I think this should be true. But of course the hand would make 6H even if partener held only Axx in spades so we might examine that case as well.

 

This brings me to:

 

Flytoox suggests 4S shows an interest in a heart slam. Partner and I had not discussed this but with my first post I was wondering if this should be the meaning. I now think not. Sometimes the partner of the 4D bidder will hold Axx, x in the majors. Here you would like 4S to mean: Pard, if your major is a five card heart suit then we need to get back to diamonds. If by any chance you have spades, then we are fine where we are. It seems that this usage would be more frequent. However! In a case like the actual hand, the bidding after 4D could be 4S-5D-5H, cancelling the original message and replacing it with good hearts, a slam try, and first round control of spades. This dual purpose usage seems playable,unless I am missing something. The 4S bidder would have to be prepared for a pass when his partner's major is spades. With the strong heart hand, but without the first round spade control, revert to the AWM approach.

 

I went to the link Inquiry suggested and followed many connecting links (eventually getting to Richard Paviceck's home page!). There are many interesting ideas but they tend to be alternative starting sequences rather than follow-ups. My thinking about handling relatively unfamiliar (to me) gadgets is that the first rule must be: Make certain you know what your own bids mean. A good counter system is good but the essential thing is to not end up in a 3-1 fit because of a misunderstanding. So I am happy enough with the ACBL guide as a starting sequence, but if I am going to keep encountering the Multi I need elaboration.

 

Even if partner does not like my dual usage 4S bid I will strongly suggest that the first (or only) meaning for 4S be that we should play spades if he has spades and retreat to the minor otherwise. The more I think about it, the more essential this appears to me. Surely with a stiff heart and three spades I cannot bid a passable 4H.

 

Ken

[Winstonm]

The more I think about it, the more essential this appears to me. Surely with a stiff heart and three spades I cannot bid a passable 4H.

 

Quite right, Ken. 4S should be reserved for hands that cannot tolerate hearts.

 

4N has to be the general slam try.

 

Another quite clever concept against muli is "Multi against Multi." In this defense, Roman Jumps are used, but the direct bids of 3H/3S are Michael's, meaning the separation of the strength of the hands is much easier.

 

But what I think I'd especially enjoy is the looks on opponents' faces when they open 2D multi, I double and when they ask for an explanation say, "Multi. Either an opening hand in either major, an 18-20 NT, or a 19+ 4441 hand."

 

:unsure:

 

Winston

[kenberg]

Anyone who wants to read more details of multi/multi can find probably more than he wants at

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/multi-v-multi-2d.htm

 

This site is a subsite of the one recommended above by Inquiry. It includes lots of follow-ups.

 

For now, it's more than I am prepared to deal with but it does seem like a thought out effective system. And yes, it would be a kick to explain it to the opps. I suppose we could also supply a suggested artificial defense to our artificial defense to their artificial system. It might take a while to complete the auction but it could lead to some very interesting contracts.