Opener's rebids after responder passes....

[errline]

Hi, I have just started playing again after a long layoff and I have a basic bidding question.

 

After the auctions

 

1♦-X-P-1♥

 

and

 

1♦-1♥-P-1♠

 

my understanding is that opener would need considerable extras to rebid. I've never seen it covered in a book, but unless my memory is tricking me, my better (ACBL Flight A) partners taught me to play it something like this:

 

P shows a minimum hand with nothing much to say. Often would have been a 1NT rebid.

 

X would be a card-showing double, in a better than minimum hand with no other clear rebid, say 15 HCP.

 

1♠ or 2♣ would show a hand with near-reverse values (so about 15 HCP for a 5-4, at least a good 13 for 5-5 mnors).

 

1NT shows 18-19 balanced if playing 15-17 NT, maybe only 17 if playing weak NT (not sure?). It seems to me this bid in particular has to show a lot. You are often (always over the X) saying you have a shot at 1NT over partner's near bust hand.

 

2♦ is the only bid that doesn't require a good hand. I would do that on a decent 6 card suit and just a little extra.

 

I have several times erroneously taken rebids in auctions like this from otherwise competent-seeming partners to mean that they had extras.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Is the scheme above basically correct according to standard expert practice?

 

2. How would it change over a 1-level balance, or 1-level overdcall and 1-level advance, instead of a takeout double and response?

 

3. What kind of values would opener need to rebid in a new suit or X if advancer jumps over a X, supports an overcall at the two level, or makes a constructive new suit bid at the 2-level?

 

Thanks!

[awm]

There's frequently a difference between "standard expert practice" and "standard BBO expert practice" so keep that in mind.

 

A free 1NT rebid when partner has never made a call should always show the 18-19 hand, or perhaps something slightly off-shape with equivalent values.

 

Double is normally takeout-oriented, and should show extras if not in balancing seat. Note that:

 

1C-P-P-1S; X is takeout and should show a good hand.

1C-1S-P-P; X is just balancing and could be a minimum; partner's pass here doesn't deny values

 

Similarly I think 1C-1H-P-1S; X doesn't need to show much extra since partner can have cards

 

Free bids of new suits or rebids of opener's suit are a lot more about shape and good suits than values. After 1D-P-P-1S, I would rebid 2C on most 5-5 hands with decent suits, even something like: x xx KQJxx KQxxx. I think this is fairly normal.

 

Auctions like 1D-1H-P-2H can be a good place for some kind of good/bad 2NT. Note that responder doesn't really deny values on this auction -- something like 8-9 points without four spades or a diamond fit is perfectly possible. With 5-5 shape it often pays to bid 3C here even on fairly minimum values, although it might be nice to be able to distinguish the good 5-5 from the bad one.

[errline]

From what I can tell after a week or two, BBO player levels don't correlate that well to anything. ;-)

 

Your reply makes a lot of sense. Particularly the shape bids.

 

If you use LTC, extra card points, Zar points or something like that rather than HCP then that would bring the shape-based rebids just about into the hand strengths above. The difference would be in promised defensive values.

 

I've always assumed a balancing double is basically mandatory even with any minimum hand when playing negative doubles, which means always.

 

Thanks very much for the help.

[mikeh]

I've always assumed a balancing double is basically mandatory even with any minimum hand when playing negative doubles, which means always.

 

 

Not quite. A reopening double, based on a minimum hand, should be short in the overcall suit. Thus Jxx KQx AQxx Jxx:

 

After opening 1♦, and hearing a major suit overcall passed to you, you should not reopen.

 

This is based on the idea that partner is highly unlikely to hold a penalty double when you hold these kinds of cards in the opps suit. Also, partner, by failing to bid 1N, double or raise, is unlikely to hold a hand that makes competing a good decision. Note that this approach will lose out should partner hold a difficult hand: say a 7-9 count with a 5-6 card♣ suit. But this is a game of percentages, not perfection :)

[coyot]

I would think that same-level preference bids do not have to guarantee any extra strength - and if so, then reversing guarantees much more.

 

1♦ with a 2♥ reopen evidently pushes partner pretty high, while a 2♣ rebid with can be done even with 5-4 and a good minimum. I don't see why a lower-suit rebid should be stronger than repeating ♦ - on the contrary, a hand with 5-4 in minors will be generally safer to rebid than a hand with 6 in one minor and the same HCP.

 

1NT should ALWAYS be strong :).

[han]

The auction:

 

1D-(1H)-pass-1S

2C

 

should definitely show extras. With a minimum you have no business bidding unless you are very distributional. Then you might bid 4C or higher.