this takes the cake

[coyot]

Add anything I left out... And ask yourself - is it so hard it would scare out anyone good from the 90%? (I really don't mind the systematically bad TDs to leave...)

5) Make decisions under strict time constraints (Minutes)

 

6) Communicate with people not speaking your language.

 

7) Have knowledge of multiple different bidding systems.

 

8) Find suitable subs for people who have fallen off their chair or walked out of the building all together.

 

:)

5) The time pressure is the biggest cause of problems: When a TD does not KNOW how to handle a problem, he will simply follow the least-resistance rule, often equaling to running away :) If the TD knows how to handle a problem, he can either do it immediately or gather necessary evidence and tell the players (just as real life TD does) that he will have a look at it later. After the tourney he will look at the movie, compare that with evidence and testimony from players and make a decision. It might not be 100% perfect, but will usually be much better than a quick guess at the table under time pressure.

 

(Note that here it would be VERY welcome to allow a TD to "delay" the computation of results when he knows he is going to do some adjusting...)

 

6) This is the problem of entrants. My tourney description ALWAYS says that the TD speaks English and Czech. Next time, I will update the description to emphasize that inability to communicate with the TD will cause all problematic cases and adjusts decided against the side that does not talk. (I.e. if you can't explain why you want an adjust, you won't get it. If opps want an adjust and you cannot clarify your actions, they will get the adjust.)

 

7) Not necessary, although helpful. Full disclosure applies to explanations of your bids and your system to TD as well as to opps. You might rely on the fact that the TD does not know your system and try to trick him, but if he happens to know the system, he will smoke your ass to hell.

 

8) Any two-fingered trained animal can do this - you only need a right click and a left click (and the little bit of knowledge about where to click :)) But nevertheless, a good idea that this got number 8, because anyone who thinks that this is the only responsibility of a TD will perhaps realize that there are some more, although not necessarily seven :)

[guggie]

about nr 8

BEFORE the right click option I used to look at the partner of the future sub, than on the sublist, and tried to make as good a match as possible. It took some trouble but could be very rewarding

 

I succumbed to the ease of the right click, I admit, and now I let Fortune decide. Nevertheless it would be handy if we could do some matching again in an easy way.

 

Besides: ALL TD activities would be a lot easier if not the pop-up TD calls killed every activity like adjusting and talking to players. You are in the midst of a heavy discussion about non alerts, you typed 2 lines, and - flop - a TD calls destroyes your lines. You start a reply to the TD caller to wait a moment, - flop - comes the next TD call from the player who wants a reply. Started reply gone too, now.

Uday would make me SO happy if he changed the destroying quality of the pop up TD call.

[candybar]

Check out the thread in Tournament Directing section called "TD Wish List". Most of these things are on it, and if not, add them. I think eventually Fred and Uday will do something to improve the TD Software, so now is the time to make your wishes known.

[Walddk]

Shouldn't abuse and this forum be flooded beyond belief

if the bad rulings are as bad a problem as it seems to

some here?

They should, absolutely! Do you know what the problem is? Most players don't know if they get a bad ruling or not, so they just comply with anything the TD may say and do.

 

Too many TDs get away with this. They may even think that they have made a correct ruling (according to the Laws of Duplicate Bridge). If that is the case, how can those individuals become better TDs?

 

Ignorance is no crime, but it's silly not to at least try to improve. The TDs in question know perfectly well if they are familiar with the laws or not.

 

Another reason why you don't get more complaints is the simplest of them all: Most players can't be bothered even if the ruling is somewhat dubious (to be diplomatic). They just get on with things.

 

Others don't compromise.

 

Roland

[candybar]

I am one of the ones who doesn't like to compromise, and I do know the rules.

 

Yesterday I posted about the director who insisted on explaining the alerted 2S bid for the opponent who refused to explain, and booted me from the tournament when I objected.

 

I sent the incident to Abuse as suggested, and here is the answer I got:

 

"I will remind [name removed] about proper bridge rules, and note this incident. I believe TD [name removed] was trying to be helpful, in case [name removed] was unable to communicate due to language problem, and see no reason to fault him for this. "

 

Correctness aside, I really don't think Abuse is the best person to saddle with complaints about bad director rulings. Bad behavior, even of TDs, yes, but maybe we should have some other person willing to look at ruling problems and help educate the TDs who make poor ones.

[helene_t]

Correctness aside, I really don't think Abuse is the best person to saddle with complaints about bad director rulings.  Bad behavior, even of TDs, yes, but maybe we should have some other person willing to look at ruling problems and help educate the TDs who make poor ones.

Indeed, Abuse is not an appeal committee. We have had the discussion about appeal committees elsewhere and at present they do not exist.

 

As for the actual case: it sounds as if the TD was trying to be helpful. It is possible that the TD was unaware of the fact that he's not supposed to explain a player's calls, but more likely that he was just looking for a quick, practical solution. After all, your opponent had been asked several times to provide an explanation and refused to do so.

 

[edited] Be nice to TDs, even to clueless TDs, and certainly to TDs who occasionally make minor mistakes in stressing situations.

Edited August 16, 2005 by helene_t

[candybar]

...It is possible that the TD was unaware of the fact that he's not supposed to explain a player's calls, but more likely that he was just looking for a quick, practical solution. After all, your opponent had been asked several times to provide an explanation and refused to do so.

Helene, I agree with you in every respect except one: The TD was not unaware that he shouldn't explain, because I very clearly (and fairly nicely) told him so and why. The opponent EXPLICITLY refused to explain his bid -- he is the one that the TD should have booted from the tournament.

[Brandal]

Helene, I agree with you in every respect except one: The TD was not unaware that he shouldn't explain, because I very clearly (and fairly nicely) told him so and why. The opponent EXPLICITLY refused to explain his bid -- he is the one that the TD should have booted from the tournament.

I'm sure most bridgeplayers and TDs know that

it's not the TDs business to explain bids/agreements.

 

Next thing you'd know is the opps explain your bids B)

 

Joke aside,I think issues like these could be solved

without booting a player and without hammering a

lawbook on anyone's head.

[candybar]

Sigh, another one for the telling.....

 

The setting: A tourney that prohibits Polish Club and Psyches completely.

 

Hand 1: K10542, K5, K4, Q1072 -- bidding goes P P 1C with this hand by a Polish player whose profile said Polish Club. When asked, he claimed they were playing SAYC but he felt like bidding 1C in the 3rd seat. TD came, asked what system they are playing several times, and they never answered. "I'm watching them", the TD told me privately and left the table.

 

Hand 2: A107, 82, J5, J109832 -- same player, bidding goes 1C 1S 2H P P(!), no alerts. TD comes back, says "It's not a psyche, it's a light opening."

 

Is it any wonder that players are confused and frustrated at the TDs?

 

Earlier today, I was at a tournament with a playing TD who had NOT posted that s/he was playing. There was almost a revolt by the end of the tournament, with at least 5 people making derogatory public comments to the tournament about the incompetence of the TD, and the TD was booting people right and left, apparently for expressing their discontent.

[the hog]

Before whingeing you would do better to find out what Polish Club actually is. You would then realise that the pairs you are playing are clearly beginners.

 

Hand 1 is a 1S opening in Polish C, (or a pass if you are a bit more conservative). The 1C opening here is a dead giveaway that you are playing a beginner.

 

Hand 2 - here you may have a legitimate complaint, as this is not an opening bid, light or otherwise. However as tournaments that prohibit psyches are not bridge tournaments anyway but rather some other game it may be an opening bid in that game. Perhaps you should ask the TD what game was being played.

[Brandal]

Shouldn't abuse and this forum be flooded beyond belief

if the bad rulings are as bad a problem as it seems to

some here?

They should, absolutely! Do you know what the problem is? Most players don't know if they get a bad ruling or not, so they just comply with anything the TD may say and do.

 

Too many TDs get away with this. They may even think that they have made a correct ruling (according to the Laws of Duplicate Bridge). If that is the case, how can those individuals become better TDs?

 

Ignorance is no crime, but it's silly not to at least try to improve. The TDs in question know perfectly well if they are familiar with the laws or not.

 

Another reason why you don't get more complaints is the simplest of them all: Most players can't be bothered even if the ruling is somewhat dubious (to be diplomatic). They just get on with things.

 

Others don't compromise.

 

Roland

I agree with everything you say Roland,but....

 

Online it is not so easy to educate,improve,unless

a big effort is made.

 

What I suggest as a first step is to remove TD privelege

for those who make horrendous decisions,like playing TD

adjusting scores for himself,booting players he doesn't

like and so on.

 

I think we all can live with the occasional dubious

ruling,but I also agree it's silly to not try improving

TD skills.

 

Knowing the Law isn't the same as knowing how to

apply the Law,enforce the Law.

[DrTodd13]

I am one of the ones who doesn't like to compromise, and I do know the rules.

 

Yesterday I posted about the director who insisted on explaining the alerted 2S bid for the opponent who refused to explain, and booted me from the tournament when I objected.

 

I sent the incident to Abuse as suggested, and here is the answer I got:

 

"I will remind [name removed] about proper bridge rules, and note this incident. I believe TD [name removed] was trying to be helpful, in case [name removed] was unable to communicate due to language problem, and see no reason to fault him for this. "

 

Correctness aside, I really don't think Abuse is the best person to saddle with complaints about bad director rulings. Bad behavior, even of TDs, yes, but maybe we should have some other person willing to look at ruling problems and help educate the TDs who make poor ones.

I'll keep repeating it until it gets done. (Same thing happened to me a couple weeks back. I clicked on a bid and opp hit escape. I clicked on bid again, and opp hit escape again. This went on for about 30 iterations.) I personally think that to stop this behavior and (largely) eliminate the language barrier, we need to pop up a box where someone can describe length/shortness in each suit, a range of points, bal/unbal/unknown, and maybe a couple other things. When someone clicks on your bid then this box pops up and you should not be able to get rid of it by hitting escape. The only way to get rid of it would be to complete each section. Only then would an "OK" button appear that you could click. BBO enforces most of the rules of bridge and I think it should enforce this one as well. In real life, you can't just sit there and refuse to explain your bids. Refusing to explain should be something that the BBO software prohibits.

[pigpenz]

Full Disclosre as simple as that, its part of the game.

 

Funniets one I has was one opp doubles my partners raise of my minor suit to the four level with this response on the query.

 

" I dont have to tell you what my double means!"

 

Ok i thought so we played 4♣x +1 :)

[jillybean]

I'll keep repeating it until it gets done. (Same thing happened to me a couple weeks back. I clicked on a bid and opp hit escape. I clicked on bid again, and opp hit escape again. This went on for about 30 iterations.)

May I suggest, click on a bid once perhaps twice, if you get no response call the TD.

 

 

jb

[inquiry]

" I dont have to tell you what my double means!"

Do us a favor, just drop any yellow a note the name of people who respond like this.

 

We assuem they don't understand how wrong this is, even if they happened to be playing in an internet coffeehouse at the time. We will gently explain the rules to them, and tell them that they need to read the rules of this site. If they then continue to violate our site rules (this is a violation) we will more forceable explain why it is wrong.

[DrTodd13]

I'll keep repeating it until it gets done.  (Same thing happened to me a couple weeks back.  I clicked on a bid and opp hit escape.  I clicked on bid again, and opp hit escape again.  This went on for about 30 iterations.)

May I suggest, click on a bid once perhaps twice, if you get no response call the TD.

 

 

jb

Doesn't work if there isn't a TD.

[Al_U_Card]

Full Disclosre as simple as that, its part of the game.

 

Funniets one I has was one opp doubles my partners raise of my minor suit to the four level with this response on the query.

 

" I dont have to tell you what my double means!"

 

Ok i thought so we played 4♣x +1 :angry:

Why would you ask what the dbl means? Whether he intends it as t/o, card showing or penalty, it is clear that you need only bid your hand and let the opps do their worst.......(unless of course the opp alerted his double....then you could expect an answer like "shows first round control of the suit and is not for t/o")

 

btw, are there any tourneys allowed where there are no "rules" and anything goes?

[pigpenz]

btw, are there any tourneys allowed where there are no "rules" and anything goes?

Would you like one I can set it up and call it the Pairs from Hell :angry:

[candybar]

btw, are there any tourneys allowed where there are no "rules" and anything goes?

If, by that, you mean are there any tournaments that allow all systems, conventions, and psyches, provided alertable, conventional, or unusual bids are alerted and fully disclosed .... yes, seems like more of them in the last few days.

 

Perhaps TDs are starting to realize that people actually want to play Bridge and not some other game.

[jdulmage]

That's amazing.

 

Oh well, I think we need to leave this to the abuse team and not the forums.

[candybar]

Another example tonight of a director explaining someone's bid incorrectly.

 

Auction went 1♣ P 1♥ 2♦ Dbl ....... my pard clicked the bid, got "No Information Available", I clicked it and got the same.

 

So based on this forum's suggestion, I just called the director. While he was coming, opponent said privately to me, "no body must answer x". I replied that ALL agreements must be explained if asked, including doubles.

 

The director arrived, we asked to know the meaning of the double, and two things happened simultaneously....

 

Opponent said to me privately, "ok I have fit".

Director said to me privately, "point dbl and punishment".

 

This is the reason that a director should never explain a bid ... he is telling what is in the opponent's hand, not what their agreement is.

[candybar]

This is getting even further out of hand!!!

 

Today:

 

I joined a tourament that the description said "Psyches not allowed 1st/2nd seat", with 18 minutes to go.

 

When the tournament started, the TD said "Psyches are not allowed". I checked the tournament description and it had been changed.

 

So I told him, that wasn't fair to change the "rules" after so many people had signed up.

 

He replied, "used too much is no psyche anymore and never alerted".

 

I pointed out that psyches are NEVER alertable.

 

He replied, "we prefer honest players"

 

I asked if he thought that psyches were dishonest.

 

He replied, "NO, but read BBO Rules, it is no psyche anymore" and then "read WBF."

 

I guess he never heard of Law 40A. How can I stay out of improperly run tournaments that change the "rules" after it starts?

 

FRED, can't you PLEASE do something about the horrible TD situation? There must be SOME way to put a stop to this idiocy.

[shoeless]

I think you have a homing device for inadequate directors Candybar - my recommendation - turn it off - find and play in the tournaments directed by people who don't do those things that annoy you so much. To my mind trashing people who are trying (likely learning in the process), maybe don't know as much as you, and giving their time to organize something for others, isn't exactly saintly behaviour. I do not believe for one minute that this situation is as poisonous as you make it out to be. Thousands of people play here everyday and we have a handful of forum users sniping at bad directors. Are they bad? Likely in some situations - yup. Are they destroying BBO? Not even close. Are they destroying your bridge life? Nope, think this is a blast for you. I remember some dark days when I was terminally cranky and a friend of mine saying, "Shoeless, your garbage is starting to stink - you should take it out."

[Elianna]

Today:

 

I joined a tourament that the description said "Psyches not allowed 1st/2nd seat", with 18 minutes to go.

I don't understand why you joined a tournament with the above description, as it does not follow the laws of bridge, either.

 

I agree that it is not really fair to change rules as the tournament starts, but you already had SOME warning that the director was changing laws of bridge.

[candybar]

Today:

 

I joined a tourament that the description said "Psyches not allowed 1st/2nd seat", with 18 minutes to go.

I don't understand why you joined a tournament with the above description, as it does not follow the laws of bridge, either.

 

I agree that it is not really fair to change rules as the tournament starts, but you already had SOME warning that the director was changing laws of bridge.

This is true. I tolerate some of the bad directing when a partner wants to play in a particular tournament. This issue is about changing the rules at the last second.

 

Given my own choice, I would avoid all tournaments with these kind of directors, playing TDs, non-Laws, etc, but when I get sucked in by descriptions that are essentially lies, or changed at the last second, it is impossible to avoid them.

 

It's bad enough that these things are allowed, but at least the TDs could be forced to post correctly!