What if you are too good?

[Winstonm]

[hv=s=sakj9hadakj852cq3]133|100|Scoring: IMP

The hideous hand for Standard: big and unwieldy. You opt for 1D and hear this:

 

S W N E

1D P 1S P

?

 

Do you have way to show this hand?[/hv]

[Walddk]

3♥. Not ideal to splinter with a singleton ace, but this hand is too good for 4♠. In my method (mini-splinters) it is at least invitational with a singleton heart. Now you can distinguish between a singleton and a void (4♥).

 

If my partner rebids 3♠ over 3♥ (sign off opposite an invite), I will follow up with 4♦. Now I think I got my message across.

 

Roland

[flytoox]

I bid 4D showing 6D+4S. If pd retreats to 4S, I continue with 5H.

[luis]

I think I choose 3♥ as well, if pd bids 3♠ I can bid 4♦ depicting a hand that will want to play slam if pd has the club control.

[inquiry]

[hv=s=sakj9hadakj852cq3]133|100|Scoring: IMP

The hideous hand for Standard: big and unwieldy. You opt for 1D and hear this:

 

S W N E

1D P 1S P

?

 

Do you have way to show this hand?[/hv]

I bid 2NT...

 

This show four card forcing raise that does not fall into one of the following three categories.

 

1) - six diamond, four spades, with good diamond suit

2) - a hand suitable for splinter (denying stopper in suit without splinter, and never splinter with void or singleton ACE)

3) - 4-2-5-2 hand with all the points (But enough) in the two bid suits.

 

Over 2NT, partner bids 3♣ with no game interest opposite a variety of game try hands, of course, opener can INSIST on game anyway. Other bids over 2NT are all game force.

 

As usual, this can be found on one of my blog pages.

 

Ben

[Free]

3♥, not perfect, but best start for the rest of the bidding imo.

[ArcLight]

Wouldn't 4♥ be a splinter? A double jump.

Wouldn't 3♥ be a very powerful 2 suiter? Say 6-5

 

Or in that case would you open the major (with 5) even with a 6 card minor?

[Walddk]

Wouldn't 4♥ be a splinter?  A double jump.

Wouldn't 3♥ be a very powerful 2 suiter?  Say 6-5

 

Or in that case would you open the major (with 5) even with a 6 card minor?

No, 2♥ is just a normal reverse with at least 4-5 in the red suits. You should save 3♥ for a splinter (singleton). The strong 5-6 hand can be shown on your next turn by rebidding 3♥. Example:

 

1♦ - 1♠

2♥ - 2NT

3♥

 

Roland

 

P.S. What is Nasi Lemak under my picture? I want to be sure that I don't violate any law.

[DrTodd13]

2♥ is a reverse so no need to bid 3♥ to show a strong two suiter. Many people play 3♥ here as a very weak 6m5M hand. 4♥ would be splinter for me as well.

 

On this particular hand, I'll probably bid 4♦ but it might be interesting to try 2♥. If partner doesn't bid clubs, then my next bid is 5♠ asking partner to bid 6♠ if he doesn't have two fast losers in clubs. Why clubs? Because it is the unbid suit and a good agreement is that the jump to 5M is asking about the 4th suit if 3 suits have already been bid. What do I do if partner bids 3♣ after 2♥? Maybe now I've screwed myself because partner will think I'm something like 3451 and won't get the right picture of the hand. How likely is partner to offer the 4th suit in this situation?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

if you play it, 4D, intending to bid 5H over 4S.

 

Splintering with an ace is hardly a good idea,

especially, if you have a sound alternative.

 

The only drawback is, that 4D makes it impossible

to hear a club cue bid from partner below the 4

level, but you should be pretty save at the 5 level,

... well, I will be convinced of this, until they get their

3 tricks.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Walddk]

The only drawback is, that 4D makes it impossible

to hear a club cue bid from partner below the 4

level.

That is exactly why 4♦ is not a good bid in my opinion. I want to learn about the club cue bid, or lack of it, below game level. The 5-level isn't safe opposite for example

 

xxxx

KQx

Qx

xxxx

 

Roland

[pigpenz]

You can always bid some form of hearts and if partner cant take any strong action or cue bid clubs rebid 5 spades asking him to bid six with ax or kx of clubs.

[1eyedjack]

P.S. What is Nasi Lemak under my picture? I want to be sure that I don't violate any law.

http://hotelpuri.com/nlrecipe.html

Luvverly

[Walddk]

You can always bid some form of hearts and if partner cant take any strong action or cue bid clubs rebid 5 spades asking him to bid six with ax or kx of clubs.

You don't seem to see the danger of forcing the auction to the 5-level (read my previous post). Ben's or my method is far superior, also compared to a 4♦ rebid.

 

Roland

[inquiry]

[hv=s=sakj9hadakj852cq3]133|100|Scoring: IMP

The hideous hand for Standard: big and unwieldy. You opt for 1D and hear this:

 

S W N E

1D P 1S P

?

 

Do you have way to show this hand?[/hv]

Inquiry 2 over 1 uses 2NT artificially as a MAJOR suit raise in a lot of situations. The basic situation is after partner opens 1H or 1S. Here 2NT shows a four card fit (or three cards with 16+ hcp, and no side five card suit) and limit raise or STRONGER hand. Only two example auctions, 1H-2NT, and 1S-2NT.

I thought I might go a step further than my earlier post and explain why 2NT is a strong raise, and show how the auction might continue. I use 2NT on many auctions as a strong major raise. So not only is Jacoby 2NT used by responder, a jump to 2NT by opener after 1m-1M-2NT shows big support In fact, it is the strongest STRONGEST fit showing response. Examples are 1C-1H-2NT, 1D-1H-2NT, 1C-1S-2NT, 1D-1S-2NT. Also, in competition, where one or the other partner has bid a major 2NT with a jump is also such a raise. A "slow 2NT" preceded by a pass, or a bid of a different suit, is not (obviously) Jacboy 2NT plus.

 

The responding scheme to this 2NT is pretty much the same regardless of how it is issued.

 

---> 2NT Jacoby 2NT Plus

--------> 3C, no game interest or monster slam interest

--------> 3D, Game interest, no slam interest, but better than 4M

---------------> 3H now ask partner to show shortness anyway.

--------> 3H, ask for 2NT bidder to show shortness if you have

-------> 3S short in "other major"

-------> 4C/4C short in bid suit (if not bid before naturally)

-------> 4M Just enough for game, no more

 

There is a minor tweak of this scheme after 1m-1M-2NT, which is allowable since opener has shown his minor suit...

1C - 1M

----------> 2NT Jacoby 2NT by opener, strong game try or game force

---------------> 3C will not accept game try

--------------------> 3D re-game try (reponder can accept or decline)

--------------------> 3OM ask for shortness, GF

--------------------> 3M signoff

--------------------> 3NT always choice contracts 4M and 3NT

--------------------> 4C spinter in other major, still slam try (if open 1C)

--------------------> 4D diamond splinter, still slam try

---------------> 3D Accept game try, no slam interest

---------------> 3H Slam interst, asking opener for shortness, 3S low, 4C upper

---------------> 3S splinter in other major

---------------> 3NT - splinter in other minor

---------------> 4C - second suit very strong slam try

---------------> 4D - second suit very strong slam try

 

This is identical to 1D - 1M 2NT, except that now openers 4C/4D meanings are reversed if responder bids 3C.

 

How would this affect this hand? If partner bids anything but 3C, slam is almost certain (checking just for club control). Over 3C (no game interest), you don't have to give up on slam yet. You can now bid 3H (splinter) to start cue-bidding. This splinter (since you didn't splinter immediately) can be singleton ace of void, and can include a control in clubs. In fact it has to be one of those. Or you can bid 3D "game try) then four diamonds over partners signoff, pinpointing need for club control. If partner accepts the 3D game try, he does so generally by cue-bidding in case you are huge. So if he bids 4D, give up... in 4S.

[Walddk]

[hv=s=sakj9hadakj852cq3]133|100|Scoring: IMP

The hideous hand for Standard: big and unwieldy.  You opt for 1D and hear this:

 

S  W  N    E

1D  P  1S  P

?

 

Do you have way to show this hand?[/hv]

Inquiry 2 over 1 uses 2NT artificially as a MAJOR suit raise in a lot of situations. The basic situation is after partner opens 1H or 1S. Here 2NT shows a four card fit (or three cards with 16+ hcp, and no side five card suit) and limit raise or STRONGER hand. Only two example auctions, 1H-2NT, and 1S-2NT.

I thought I might go a step further than my earlier post and explain why 2NT is a strong raise, and show how the auction might continue. I use 2NT on many auctions as a strong major raise. So not only is Jacoby 2NT used by responder, a jump to 2NT by opener after 1m-1M-2NT shows big support In fact, it is the strongest STRONGEST fit showing response. Examples are 1C-1H-2NT, 1D-1H-2NT, 1C-1S-2NT, 1D-1S-2NT. Also, in competition, where one or the other partner has bid a major 2NT with a jump is also such a raise. A "slow 2NT" preceded by a pass, or a bid of a different suit, is not (obviously) Jacboy 2NT plus.

 

The responding scheme to this 2NT is pretty much the same regardless of how it is issued.

 

---> 2NT Jacoby 2NT Plus

--------> 3C, no game interest or monster slam interest

--------> 3D, Game interest, no slam interest, but better than 4M

---------------> 3H now ask partner to show shortness anyway.

--------> 3H, ask for 2NT bidder to show shortness if you have

-------> 3S short in "other major"

-------> 4C/4C short in bid suit (if not bid before naturally)

-------> 4M Just enough for game, no more

 

There is a minor tweak of this scheme after 1m-1M-2NT, which is allowable since opener has shown his minor suit...

1C - 1M

----------> 2NT Jacoby 2NT by opener, strong game try or game force

---------------> 3C will not accept game try

--------------------> 3D re-game try (reponder can accept or decline)

--------------------> 3OM ask for shortness, GF

--------------------> 3M signoff

--------------------> 3NT always choice contracts 4M and 3NT

--------------------> 4C spinter in other major, still slam try (if open 1C)

--------------------> 4D diamond splinter, still slam try

---------------> 3D Accept game try, no slam interest

---------------> 3H Slam interst, asking opener for shortness, 3S low, 4C upper

---------------> 3S splinter in other major

---------------> 3NT - splinter in other minor

---------------> 4C - second suit very strong slam try

---------------> 4D - second suit very strong slam try

 

This is identical to 1D - 1M 2NT, except that now openers 4C/4D meanings are reversed if responder bids 3C.

 

How would this affect this hand? If partner bids anything but 3C, slam is almost certain (checking just for club control). Over 3C (no game interest), you don't have to give up on slam yet. You can now bid 3H (splinter) to start cue-bidding. This splinter (since you didn't splinter immediately) can be singleton ace of void, and can include a control in clubs. In fact it has to be one of those. Or you can bid 3D "game try) then four diamonds over partners signoff, pinpointing need for club control. If partner accepts the 3D game try, he does so generally by cue-bidding in case you are huge. So if he bids 4D, give up... in 4S.

I am sure this method is very good Ben, but let me with frank with you and others: It's too much to remember for the "average" bridge player. I consider myself above average, and it's definitely too much for me.

 

Roland

[1eyedjack]

-------> 4M Just enough for game, no more

Just a very minor comment:

 

I tend to have a problem with principle of fast arrival opposite an unlimited partner. Partner may have slam interest despite that you have "just enough for game", in which case you have consumed a lot of bidding space. I don't suggest an easy answer, mind, not least because this is an unfamiliar set of sequences for me.

 

But I have noticed in other situations that if you keep the auction sufficiently low (with a minimum) to allow partner to get all his slam tries "off his chest" by the time you get to game, he is less worried about then passing you in game without making yet another attempt.

[inquiry]

I am sure this method is very good Ben, but let me with frank with you and others: It's too much to remember for the "average" bridge player. I consider myself above average, and it's definitely too much for me.

Hi Roland,

 

Well, I will say this for my method for major suit raises. It is essentially identical for 1M-2NT, 1m-1M-2NT, (1m)-1M-(pass)-2NT, (1m)-1M-(bid)-2NT, with same rules. So while on the surface, this might look like a lot, it really isn't, as it is redudant. You can use whatever method you play over direct jacoby just as well for this 2NT jump if you like (in fact that is what I do, but i play jacoby 2NTPLUS).

 

It is true that after 1m-1M-2M, we have sweatened the pot with a jump to 4m, but you play that as well. And we have sweatened it with splinter bid denying control in the fourth suit. I think perhaps the denied control in the fourth suit you don;t play. That leaves the direct jump rebid 1m-1M-4M to be very picturesque, since you can always force with 2NT then rebid 4M with other hands that have more potential.

 

I added this so that Winstonm can see how this method works with the hand he proposed during the follow up. And for what it is worth, he stated specifically that thiss hand was bad for standard methods and asked specifically for methods (non-standard obviously) for dealing with this hand). So... there you go. And an added plus for mine, it can be reviewed on line for any who care.

 

Ben

[mikeh]

I agree with the 3♥ splinter idea, provided that we have an agreement about what 4♠ means, if indeed it is a permissible rebid for partner over the splinter. I would assume that it shows good trump, in context (Qxxxx or better) and denies the ♣A or any other cue bid.... maybe the ♣K or stiff if the hand is otherwise worthless. Of course, this view is premised on 3♥ being a gf.

 

4♥, for me, would be exclusion keycard, and that might work extremely well but is far too likely to leave you guessing. 4♦, the other choice, is too risky for the reasons set out by Roland.

 

 

2♥, a creative force, is an unnecessary distortion that will lead partner completely astray.... and while we have a great hand, we ought not to so utterly mislead partner. Partners, no matter how unworthy they may seem from time to time, deserve our love, respect and nuture B)

 

As for Ben's 2N rebid, I am sure that his method also (somehow) caters to the far more common 18-19 balanced hands with less than 4 card support: maybe he opens mexican 2♦ with these. Otherwise, using 2N as a huge raise is (for me) too costly to consider. I also concur with Roland's view that this is a method best recerved for serious players in a serious partnership, since there is otherwise too much potential for a costly 'forget'.

 

Finally, in light of my willingness to agree with Roland, would he, on behalf of Denmark, recall his country's navy and recognize Canadian Sovereignty over that tiny island? :(

[inquiry]

-------> 4M Just enough for game, no more

Just a very minor comment:

 

I tend to have a problem with principle of fast arrival opposite an unlimited partner.

Just curious. You did notice the 3♦ as opposed to the 4M bid? The 3♦ bid says, willing to bid game, but no slam interest. So 3♦ and 4M are nearly identical bids, but 3♦ is more encouraging than 4M. In fact, 4M is primarily used opposite a passed hand by opener. 4M never includes a singleton or void as well. And is not particularily control rich. The frequency of 3♦ to 4M is greatly in favor of 3♦, making 4M a warning not to try for more. Of course, responder is free to bid on.

[Walddk]

Finally, in light of my willingness to agree with Roland, would he, on behalf of Denmark, recall his country's navy and recognize Canadian Sovereignty over that tiny island? :(

Definitely not! Hans Ø is ours and will remain ours until the end of time. You can have all the Danish (pastries) you like, but our island? Never!

 

We are at war with Canada, and if I were you I would tremble in my boots!

 

Roland

[mike777]

Definitely not! Hans Ø is ours and will remain ours until the end of time. You can have all the Danish (pastries) you like, but our island? Never!

 

We are at war with Canada, and if I were you I would tremble in my boots!

 

Roland

 

 

 

Fortinbras: Where is this sight?

.................

This quarry cries on havoc.

Oh proud death - What feast is toward in thine eternal cell,

That thou so many princes at a shot so bloodily hast struck!

 

 

Let four Captains bear Hamlet, like a soldier, to the stage;

For he was likely, had he been put on,

To have proved most royally; and, for his passage,

The soldiers' music and rites or war

Speak loudly for him.

Take up the bodies, but here shows much amiss.

Go, bid the soldiers shoot.

[mikeh]

Definitely not! Hans Ø is ours and will remain ours until the end of time. You can have all the Danish (pastries) you like, but our island? Never!

 

We are at war with Canada, and if I were you I would tremble in my boots!

 

Roland

 

Okay: no more mister nice guy!

 

We Canadians have had enough! It is our island!

 

Furthermore, a recent referundum disclosed that 87% of the gulls (the largest population demographic) surveyed preferred Canadian bread crumbs over stale danish pastries. The sea lions also preferred Canadian cod over Danish herrings... apparently they object to eating pickled fish.

 

Thus we have strong evidence that Denmark's claims are against the principle of self-determination!

[Double !]

Assuming that I am not playing 3H as a weak 5-6, I like 3H (and I liked it when Luis suggested it in response to a bidding poll question involving a similar hand), especially if P can Q something in the club suit. If P only rebids 3S, can I launch a Serious 3NT with this hand, again to find out about clubs without going past 4S?

[Walddk]

If P only rebids 3S, can I launch a Serious 3NT with this hand, again to find out about clubs without going past 4S?

Sounds fair enough, but 4♦ would actually give the same message (no club control). It is as serious as 3NT in this context since I waste my time cue bidding opposite a partner who has already signed off opposite a limit hand with a singleton heart.

 

Roland