badderzboy Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 [hv=d=e&v=n&n=sq92hqj843d8cq987&s=saj753hadak10653ca]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Steve If u bid 1♦ RHO bids 1♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 I open 1D. You could upgrade to 2C, but showing this hand is hard enough opening at the 1 level. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Let's see if I remember correctly what Ben has taught me a couple of weeks ago. I open 3D with this hand, so that I can show a spades-diamonds 2-suiter with exactly 3 losers, I believe by rebidding 4D over 3H (3S would show 4 losers). Not having New MisIry available, I think I will start with 2C. This hand is so strong that I don't think I can catch up if I start with 1D. I predict that the majority will vote 1D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Let's see if I remember correctly what Ben has taught me a couple of weeks ago. I open 3D with this hand, so that I can show a spades-diamonds 2-suiter with exactly 3 losers, I believe by rebidding 4D over 3H (3S would show 4 losers). Not having New MisIry available, I think I will start with 2C. This hand is so strong that I don't think I can catch up if I start with 1D. I predict that the majority will vote 1D. Correct you are.. .3♦ in misiry (I have thrown out old misiry for new misiry, so now just misiry rather than new misiry). Followed by 4D. If norht wants to try for slam, he bids 4H (denial) over 4D.. and 6S will result immediately as south bids 5NT, missing both queens anchor queens, i have the ACE of hearts). MisIry can be found at: Long winded description of MisIry Without MisIry, I vote for 1D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Clear 1♠ opening, it seems I'll reach 6♠ in few rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Clear 1D, will reach slam in a few rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 1♦ I usually agree with Fluffy's comments but opening the shortest suit of two with a strong hand is a recipe for disaster, pd will kepep correcting to spades and you will feel bad bad bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Dealer: East Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP ♠ Q92 ♥ QJ843 ♦ 8 ♣ Q987 ♠ AJ753 ♥ A ♦ AK10653 ♣ A Steve If u bid 1♦ RHO bids 1♥I play precision so open 1♣ ;) Playing Acol with Benjamin 2's (which I do occasionally ) I'll open 2C (and get a positive 2♥ response showing 5+ H and 7+ points ) Playing SAYC or 2/1 I will open 2♣ also ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'm afraid we might defend 1♥ doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I open 1♦. I am unlikley to get to describe this hand at a reasonable level if I open 2♣. I prefer 1♦ to 1♠ for 3 reasons:1. My diamonds are longer and stronger2. 1♦ is less likely to be passed out than 1♠3. Over the most likely response of 1♥ I can show my enormous playing strength and still be at the 2 level. If the bidding starts 1♦ (1♥) P (P) then I will reopen with a jump to 2♠ Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 2C for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 1♦ for me I HATE opening 2♣ with 2 suited hands...Luckily, while hands like this get a lot of attention, they're quite rare... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Depends on system, doesn't it? Playing 2/1 or sayc I open 1D. Not 2C! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 1D. After 2C it is almost impossible to bid out your shape. I actually think even in precision this kind hand should not open 1C if there is any other bid can handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I voted for 1♦ as two spade rebids will describe the hand exactly. The only trouble of this hand is finding partner with the spade honors, which will be a little harder if he happens to support diamonds and not spades.1♦-1♥1♠-1NT2♠*-4♠ 2♠ now shows 5♠ and 6♦ (or 6+7) and a strong hand. Partner's ugly values make him sign off, after which I can RKCB and park in 6♠, making if spades are 3-2 and diamonds no worse than 4-2. But give partner 1 more diamond and 1 less spade and I might end up in a very bad slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 After 1♦ if LHO bids 1♥ and that is passed to me I reopen with 2♠ which is very forcing. Then it depends on what pd does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Well, I dunno if you really prefer 1♦, but that is simply weird to me, because 1♦ opening denies 5♠ on my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Luckily I have a way to bid this hand. Because the 2C opening is the albatross of natural systems, I stongly feel it pays to define these bids quite closely. Therefore, my partner and I decided there were three basic hand types that would open 2C: NT hands, 1-suiters, and 2 suiters and all can be shown. 2C-2D is a 99% forced asking bid. (2N is a virtual yarborough with at least 2 cards in every suit and opener places the contract. 3C, 3D are exactly Qxxxxx with no more that a J outside.)2H- a la Kokish relay, either a 22-23 NT or a heart-2 suiter after which 2S asks.2S- an unspecified 1-suiter and asks for controls.2N- 24-25 NT3C/3D,3H Spades and the suit bid. Therefore with this hand I could bid:2C-2D3D-3H* *transfer3S-4S Without this type of system, put me in the 1D camp. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 1D. After 2C it is almost impossible to bid out your shape. I actually think even in precision this kind hand should not open 1C if there is any other bid can handle it.Trouble with that approach is that 1♦ and 1♠ show a MAX (the way I play Precision) of 15 points --- so it's entirely possible that you ONLY get to play in a partial if P has the hand shown :D After consideration I think those who vote for 1♦ (playing anything except a strong club system) got it right -- one can ALWAYS reverse to 2♠ if necessary --unless it goes 1♦ P P P ;) -- which will NOT happen (luckily) with the hands shown :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I'm a nonconformist who will usually look for some way to create a forcing situation as soon as possible when I have (or just about have) game in my own hand. This hand is an exception. If one open's 2 clubs, there's a good chance that P will respond 2 diamonds, pushing the bidding up a level if you bid your suits in proper order, and it could make showing your 5 spades awkward. If you choose to rebid spades first, then P will likely think that your spades are longer each time you rebid diamonds. (Got it: play minor suit canapes after 2C openers). Somehow, I doubt that this hand is going to get passed out at 1 diamond or even through the 2-level. This hand likely will have another chance to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Well, I dunno if you really prefer 1♦, but that is simply weird to me, because 1♦ opening denies 5♠ on my system. This is why I said "It depends on system". I agree with Fluffy that I would MUCH rather play a system where the 1D opening denied a 5 card Major, such as Polish Club. To the doubting Thomas, it is easy to show that Ds are longer. It would be nice if posters when saying "how do you bid this?" added the rider how do you bid it in sayc or in 2/1. There are many different ways to bid a hand, and if I posted a relay sequence, that would be meaningless to everybody and a waste of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I thought for a long time that my system denied 5M if the opener starts with 1m. But I realized that you can easily fit this hand into (almost) any system! If you simply rebid spades twice (basically no matter what your partner responds), you've shown 5-6-x-x AND a good hand. It works well even without jumping (if you play 1♦1-♥-1♠ as one round force - after that, 2♠ rebid is almost GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 You cannot rebid spades twice when you are at the 5 level already, and... you have a small problem answering 4sF with balanced hands: 1♦-1♥1♠-2♣ with a simpe 4243 without ♥ nor ♣ honnor we have an easy 2♠ rebid, what do you do?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I don't think this is a reason not to open 1D on a 5-6. There is a standard problem in replying to 4SF when you have already described your hand the previous round and have nothing suitable to show. You need to agree what the "default" bid is. Personally, if I am 4243 minimum I open 1D and rebid 1NT. If however I am 4243 minimum and I have agreed to rebid 1S, I open 1D, rebid 1S and bid 2H over 4SF. If I am 4243 minimum and I have agreed to rebid 1S, and I have agreed that 2S is the "default" bid on such a hand, I rebid 3S over 2C on a 56. They're very rare. Alternatively, if you like to play that 1D denies a 5-card major, then open the hand 1S. But then you need a systemic way (possibly an obscure way) to show longer diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 You cannot rebid spades twice when you are at the 5 level already, and... you have a small problem answering 4sF with balanced hands: 1♦-1♥1♠-2♣ with a simpe 4243 without ♥ nor ♣ honnor we have an easy 2♠ rebid, what do you do?. Can't happen to me - 1♦-1♥1NT-... If I have to bid 1♠ with this hand, then partner must expect trouble if I don't stop clubs - and I will gladly bit 2♦ on 4card. I mean, why should I bid 2♠ with 4243 shape??? It is well known that when opener is under forcing, repeat of his first suit does not promise extra length! Anyway, one more reason to play 1NT including spades :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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