A serious topic.

[keylime]

To the BBO community,

 

I'd write this to my blog, but I can't help myself.

 

Lately I've seen a sudden upsurge in the use of the good ol' blue card. I wish I could say it's because of a support redouble, Rosenkranz redouble, or showing cards. However, sadly, it's not.

 

There's the 7NT XX contingent, and every time I see that happen, it's getting reported to abuse. That is just absurd. However, there is a more sinister group of there: the redouble because they feel affronted crowd. Let me offer a few small stats.

 

I was scrolling through two fellow teammates' hands for my ladder team and I noticed a startling number of redoubled contracts playing in every which direction. In 10 data sets, try 13. 13 redoubled final contracts. Not one succeeded.

 

I decided to then take a more random set of folks; player I'm friends with and such. Same type of situation - lotta redoubled contracts lately.

 

To you the BBO member, put down the redouble card. If you feel the urge to do it, don't. If you really strongly desire to, take the redouble card, and tear it to pieces.

 

There is help out there. If you can't get help here, then get help someone. Please. Seeing -13's and up for some partscore redoubled off two, is sickening to me.

[Double !]

Question.

 

On how many occasions did one, the other, or both of the members of the redoubling partnership leave the table after (or during) the hand was over and they were set?

 

I tell you, there are days when I am completed astounded by what appear to be some people's expectations from cyberspace.

[Blofeld]

I admit that redoubles probably see too much use in the games I play in, but I don't see quite so many of them going down.

 

Over the past month, I've seen five redoubled contracts. Of these, three made (two with overtricks) [edit: just noticed, Dwayne was the redoubler in the third :blink:]. Of the other two, one was a redouble for rescue that was passed in a pick-up partnership, and one was after the beginning 1NT-X (their escape mechanism didn't allow them to play there, and so they chanced 1NXX, which was bound to be a big swing in one direction or the other).

[hotShot]

Short tourneys and the need to produce big swing to reach a top spot in IMP tourneys, trains people to play more dbled and redbled contracts.

Unless much more boards are used to calculate the crossIMPs in the MBC, you can get a -IMP score for playing the right contract.

[pigpenz]

yes, in short tournaments the results always are skewed alittle, I was playing once in an indi the next to last round my opp went for -1100 in a sac, next round I had him as partner and he got to 5♦ doubled and redoubled and -1000....i just shrugged cause there is nothing you can do about it.

 

I tried to get the ACBL to run a 26 board game, but according to Gweny they axed it from what I could tell with as little as she would say, "shorhtanswer-NO". I still believe there are those out there that would like to play in a full sesson game where you do have to sit in your sit and play bridge for all 26 boards.

[keylime]

Intertwined with my sarcasm, is a serious plea to not do this.

 

I can understand if it's an indy. I can understand once in a blue moon in a tourney. Not tho, in the MBC on almost every 4th hand I compare with.

 

Blofield, my redouble was because I knew somebody was speeding. :-)

 

I play a set game every Tuesday with two friends of mine who are highly competent players. The last three sets we've had, there's been at least 2-3 XX'ed contracts in the comparisons.

 

Yes I do have expectations in cyberspace. Scary, but true. :-)

[Blofeld]

Mmm, I don't fault your rewinding it. My point was more that while I perhaps see too many redoubles, they tend to be more justified than in your experience.

[Brandal]

To the BBO community,

 

I'd write this to my blog, but I can't help myself.

 

Lately I've seen a sudden upsurge in the use of the good ol' blue card. I wish I could say it's because of a support redouble, Rosenkranz redouble, or showing cards. However, sadly, it's not.

 

There's the 7NT XX contingent, and every time I see that happen, it's getting reported to abuse. That is just absurd. However, there is a more sinister group of there: the redouble because they feel affronted crowd. Let me offer a few small stats.

 

I was scrolling through two fellow teammates' hands for my ladder team and I noticed a startling number of redoubled contracts playing in every which direction. In 10 data sets, try 13. 13 redoubled final contracts. Not one succeeded.

 

I decided to then take a more random set of folks; player I'm friends with and such. Same type of situation - lotta redoubled contracts lately.

 

To you the BBO member, put down the redouble card. If you feel the urge to do it, don't. If you really strongly desire to, take the redouble card, and tear it to pieces.

 

There is help out there. If you can't get help here, then get help someone. Please. Seeing -13's and up for some partscore redoubled off two, is sickening to me.

I agree,it is silly to see how many 7NTXX and such both

in tourneys and MBC.

 

I guess people who throw a fit in tourneys also do

it in MBC,they get mad at someone and take it from there.

 

What annoys me is this shows no regard,no respect for

everyone else playing.

 

It is a very selfish act of nonsense,and I wish something

could be done to prevent these scores from ruining many

a good board......what's the point in playing a partscore

in imp tourneys when we know there will be a few awful

scores to compete with?

[pigpenz]

its funny I posted earlier today on this, and afterward I got to play 2♦redoubled on a kqj♦ opposite 456♦.

 

On a stayman auction my left hand opp doubled on axxx♦.

The story was good, we made it redoubled. ;)

[keylime]

Did they lead trumps? :-)

[helene_t]

True. At the club, I play on average one redoubled contract a year I think. Online, it's an everyday occurence.

 

I suppose bidding misunderstandings and distrust in opps bidding are the major causes. A desire to create swings certainly also plays a role. At the club, I never go for swings since I'm working on my year-through rating. Online, the desire to win as many 8-board tournaments as possible cause players to go swings much more often.

 

Dumping? I've never seen it. Last week, in a tournament, opps went XX-4 on the first board and XX-2 at the second. I suspected dumping at first, but when I looked at the movie once more I reached the conclussion that their bidding was speculative, yet not insane.

[epeeist]

I'm not sure I agree redoubles "should" be all that rare...while redoubles (to play, not SOS etc.) may be overused, I don't think they should be as infrequent as once in a blue moon; especially given the effect of wild variation in opponent skill levels etc. on the tendency to double or not.

 

In a tournament yesterday P and I needed/wanted a good result on a later board. 7♣ was likely to be successful, but also in my view likely to be bid by other pairs. But because we needed a good result and I thought 7NT was not unlikely based on suit length and stoppers, I bid it. LHO doubled (had KQJ10 in hearts and an outside queen, I think). Because it was matchpoints, I passed. If it had been IMPs, I would have redoubled, because of the chance to make up for several bad boards. We made 7NTX vulnerable for 100%. No finesse or squeeze or anything required. And of course, no endplay required... :) Maybe I got a bit lucky with what partner had in her hand.

 

I think bidding 7NT instead of 7♣ was reasonable; LHO double may or may not have been reasonable; but if I'd redoubled at IMPs, that too would have been reasonable. In my (intermediate) opinion... :)

 

If one thinks redoubles should be rarer, perhaps it's really penalty doubles of high-level contracts that should be rarer?

[Brandal]

I'm not sure I agree redoubles "should" be all that rare...while redoubles (to play, not SOS etc.) may be overused, I don't think they should be as infrequent as once in a blue moon; especially given the effect of wild variation in opponent skill levels etc. on the tendency to double or not.

 

In a tournament yesterday P and I needed/wanted a good result on a later board. 7♣ was likely to be successful, but also in my view likely to be bid by other pairs. But because we needed a good result and I thought 7NT was not unlikely based on suit length and stoppers, I bid it. LHO doubled (had KQJ10 in hearts and an outside queen, I think). Because it was matchpoints, I passed. If it had been IMPs, I would have redoubled, because of the chance to make up for several bad boards. We made 7NTX vulnerable for 100%. No finesse or squeeze or anything required. And of course, no endplay required... :) Maybe I got a bit lucky with what partner had in her hand.

 

I think bidding 7NT instead of 7♣ was reasonable; LHO double may or may not have been reasonable; but if I'd redoubled at IMPs, that too would have been reasonable. In my (intermediate) opinion... :)

 

If one thinks redoubles should be rarer, perhaps it's really penalty doubles of high-level contracts that should be rarer?

Just to clarify my point,I'm not talking about the

1 down redoubled or the ones making,or even

2 down,those are "legitimate" redoubles.

 

I'm talking about the 7NTXX 13 down and other

silly things where someone clearly is upset and

make a claim with no root in reality,they happen

quite often too.

[coyot]

7NTxx-13 is obvious abuse. But, how would you treat things like:

1♥-p-1NT-p-4♥-p-p-x-xx-p-p-p?

 

I.e partner bids 4♥xx all of his own with a minimum hand with six trumps against a natural 1NT?

 

It was an indy, I just labeled the person moron and added him to my enemylist, but his behaviour was on the edge of abuse :)

[pigpenz]

Did they lead trumps? :-)

Yes they did, he lead Ace of trump and continued, having no ruffing potential since i was mirrored with dummy pulled trump they were 4-3 and cashed my winners making, another case of a stupid lead directing double.

 

Now i have had this come up pretty frequently about understanding on these auctions what does redouble and pass show? I have always felt redouble shows 3+good and pass shows 3+ bad. Too many times I have played 3-3 fit making.

[TheoKole]

[hv=d=e&v=e&n=saqjhk4dakxxcakqj&w=skxxha1098xxdj10cxx&e=s109xxxxxhqxdxxxcx&s=shjxxdq9xxc1098743]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Dealer East E/W Vulnerable

Bidding goes,

 

2♠ - Pass - Pass - Double*

3♠ - Pass - Pass - 3NT

Pass - 4♣ - Pass - 4♦

Pass - 5♣ - Double** - Redouble***

Pass - Pass - Pass

 

2♠ (any old 6 card suit will do)

Double* - Takeout

3♠ (I actually have 7 spades but am REALLY WEAK)

3NT - Partner I have 25 - 27 points in MY HAND (2 club opening) :)

4♣ - Partner I have a weak hand with clubs (problem with entries) :(

4♦ - (ok Clubs are fine) Cuebid (looking for A ♥ - thinking of 6 or 7 clubs) :)

5♣ - Nothing to Cuebid (6 clubs is probably on a finesse of K ♥) :unsure:

Double** - Penalty (trusting her partner) ;)

Redouble*** - (*A GIFT* :lol: she really shouldn't have trusted him on this occasion)

 

5 ♣ xx +1 = 1000

 

This hand came up with one of my regular partners on BBO a few days ago. As we have a regular partnership at our club (ie. we trust each others bidding) we seem to play a redoubled contract (1 which hasn't made) on average once every 2 to 3 months. (This usually happens when one of the opponents steps a little out of line)

 

I have noticed that this goes up on average to about twice a month when we play on BBO. My opinion is that alot of players on BBO don't take their bidding very seriously. If some opponents want to bid like this fellow i'll be happy to redouble the contract when their partners are deceived by their bidding.

 

B) Cheers

[keylime]

Update:

 

Obviously some of you are addicted to the blue card. Put the blue card down. Leave it alone. If you have to, put a painful stimulus on the card to deter you from thinking about it. Duct tape the message "No" to it.

 

If you can't get help here, please get help somewhere. Rehabilitate yourselves with the 12 step Skittles program. It's cheap, it's enjoyable, it's restorative, it's enpowering.

[Double !]

For the record (and I have witnesses).

I was watching two superb players playing against GIB.

The BOTS bid to 5D, got doubled, and despite my immediately informing them that you had specifically requested no redoubles, the BOT rewound 5D anyway and went for something like 1400. So, the blue card appears to be contageous and may also be infiltrating the GIB motherboard.

 

 

:(

 

DHL

[keylime]

OK, an open letter to the GiBs.

 

STOP redoubling. Get it together. Shake it off.

[Double !]

editorial correction.

 

Have been informed by my sources that the BOTs only went - 1000. Apologize for any misrepresentation and false impressions that my previous post might have created.

 

DHL

[han]

Looked it up, it was indeed 1000. But there were more mistakes in your story Double!, namely the level of the players involved.

 

Todat the bots went for 1400 and 14.47 IMPs, what's wrong with them? How good are they? Here is the east hand:

 

Q10

AJ9x

109

AQ10xx

 

North opened 1D, East-Bot overcalled 2C, passed around to North who doubled. Now GIB bid 2H!!! Little later they were in 3CX down 5.

[Gerben42]

Agree with your rant Dwayne, but there are some situations where the XX card can be used.

 

They double you and the following conditions are met:

 

- You are playing IMPs

- You are not vulnerable

- They ain't going anywhere

- You are SURE you are not going 2 down

 

Then -100 or -200 won't make a difference but the difference between 590 and 880 might be a lot.

[Double !]

Looked it up, it was indeed 1000. But there were more mistakes in your story Double!, namely the level of the players involved.

 

Todat the bots went for 1400 and 14.47 IMPs, what's wrong with them? How good are they? Here is the east hand:

 

Q10

AJ9x

109

AQ10xx

 

North opened 1D, East-Bot overcalled 2C, passed around to North who doubled. Now GIB bid 2H!!! Little later they were in 3CX down 5.

absolutely nothing eroneous about description of level of players.

 

agree that level of bidding of BOTS is debatable.

[inquiry]

Looked it up, it was indeed 1000. But there were more mistakes in your story Double!, namely the level of the players involved.

 

Todat the bots went for 1400 and 14.47 IMPs, what's wrong with them? How good are they? Here is the east hand:

 

Q10

AJ9x

109

AQ10xx

 

North opened 1D, East-Bot overcalled 2C, passed around to North who doubled. Now GIB bid 2H!!! Little later they were in 3CX down 5.

absolutely nothing eroneous about description of level of players.

 

agree that level of bidding of BOTS is debatable.

The 1400 was a gift, but if the bot had stuck in 3Clubs he would be down 1100 anyway. Funny hand of sorts, 10 people overcalled 2C vul on that hand, and only three got doubled in clubs. Those in 2Cx went down two and three. 2C should be down four. The defense against the bot was brutal... Cash two diamonds, then cash two spades ending up in the opners hand, only then lead a third round of diamonds for a trump promotion. Claim 2D, 2S, 3C, 2H. The real question is why didn't eveyrone of the 10 who overcalled 2C not have to play in clubs doubled?

[keylime]

Why do people overcall five card minors? That's begging for punishment.