Two hands from last night

[LukeG]

Hello all,

 

Here are two hands from last night where I got poor results.  What would you have done in my place?

 

1) Neither vul, IMPs: KJ10, 10x, 9xxx, Axxx

 

RHO opens 1S, pass, pass, partner doubles, RHO bids 2S and you?

 

2) Both vul, IMPs: xx, xxx, x, K9xxxxx

 

Partner opens 1C, RHO doubles, and you?

 

Thanks ... Luke

[pbleighton]

1) Tempted to pass, to convert for penalties, rather than bid 2C.

2) 3C if playing inverted minors, 2C if not.

[inquiry]

1) Neither vul, IMPs: KJ10, 10x, 9xxx, Axxx

 

RHO opens 1S, pass, pass, partner doubles, RHO bids 2S and you?

 

I pass. You want your partner to "protect" in the balancing seat. Often he is bidding based upon your values when balancing. If you then bounce willy-nilly to the three level on scattered nothing you will soon find yourself with either a different partner, or a partner who becomes afraid to balance.

 

If your partner actually has some significant values he will bid again. For instance, if you pass, and partner reopens with a double with three likely tricks in my hand, at this vul, I surely would not have a problem with passing. If I was vul, I would have no problem bidding 3NT.

 

If you just have to bid with this hand here, It would be great if  you didn't have to guess which minor to bid. You could bid 2NT here if your partner would understand that as "scrambling" trying to find the best fit at the three level. Your partner will then bid biddable suits up the line. This 2NT can not be lebehnshol, as are no forced to bid, so with bad hands you simply pass. But many players would not play this 2NT as scrambling. If partner reopens with a double again, and you decide you lack the tricks to play 2Sx at imps, you could then bid 3C which clearly would be scrambling... (and not lebehnshol), because with a bad hand a minor  you could bid it over the second reopening double without problem.  

 

2) Both vul, IMPs: xx, xxx, x, K9xxxxx

 

Partner opens 1C, RHO doubles, and you?

 

First, don't get confused about if you play inverted minor or not. Even if you don't play inverted minors, once RHO doubled, jump raises (to 3C) and double jump raises (to 4C) are WEAK.

 

You have at last a 10 card CLUB fit, and maybe more. The law of total tricks implies that you are safe to bid to the 4 level with a 10 card fit. There are two reasons you may not want to. First, you may be providing 7 Club tricks for a possible 3NT contract if your partner has 3 clubs to the ace and the ability to keep them from grabbing 5 quick tricks (think some minimum like SJTxx HAxx Axx Axx). The second reason is two kinds of fear... fear a 4C bid may push them to a game they can make or wouldn't bid without your 4C bid, and fear you might convert a plus to a minus if you bid 4C.

 

Having said all that, I would still bid 4C with this hand, and then I am out of the bidding. If they bid 4H/4S it is up to partner to decide what to do (double, bid on to 5C, pass). If I was 2-2-2-7, I would bid only 3C when vul, but 4C when not vul.

[hrothgar]

Hello all,

 

Here are two hands from last night where I got poor results.  What would you have done in my place?

 

1) Neither vul, IMPs: KJ10, 10x, 9xxx, Axxx

 

RHO opens 1S, pass, pass, partner doubles, RHO bids 2S and you?

 

2) Both vul, IMPs: xx, xxx, x, K9xxxxx

 

Partner opens 1C, RHO doubles, and you?

 

Thanks ... Luke

 

With hand 1, I am going to bid 2NT, expecting partner to bid a 4 card minor.

 

With hand 2, I'll bid

 

1H with probability 20%

1S with probability 25%

3C with probbaility 10%

4C with probability 30%

5C with probability 15%

[the hog]

2NT pick a minor on hand 1

 

4C on hand 2

 

Let us know the full hand and what happened.

[LukeG]

Here are the actual hands and my results.

 

On the first hand, 2NT would have worked marvelously, whether it was takeout or natural.  Partner had x, J9xx, AK10xx, K9x.  Three diamonds is laydown and you can even make 3NT if they start with two rounds of spades and you guess the diamonds - opening bidder had AQxxxx, AKQ, J, Qxx.  I passed for -110.

 

On the second hand, I bid 4C.  This goaded LHO into bidding 4H with K10xx, J109xx, xxxx, (void) and made it easy for RHO to raise to 6H with AQx, KQxx, AKQxxx, (void).   Should partner, with J9xx, A, Jx, AQJ10xx, take the sac in 7C.  On this hand, with me having only three pointed suit cards, it's only -800 but that seems like the smallest number that you will pay out if you take the dive.  

 

Luke

[the hog]

"On the second hand, I bid 4C.  This goaded LHO into bidding 4H with K10xx, J109xx, xxxx, (void) and made it easy for RHO to raise to 6H with AQx, KQxx, AKQxxx, (void).   Should partner, with J9xx, A, Jx, AQJ10xx, take the sac in 7C."

 

Hard to take the sac with 2 bullets, even though your pd  strongly suspects the AC won't stand up. Maybe 4C is not such a great bid after all. 3C would possibly only get 3H or maybe a responsive X. Doubler has such a powerhouse though that they would still get to 6. Nice to have agreements here about the meaning of pass and X in relation to the defensive tricks you have.

[inquiry]

"On the second hand, I bid 4C.  This goaded LHO into bidding 4H with K10xx, J109xx, xxxx, (void) and made it easy for RHO to raise to 6H with AQx, KQxx, AKQxxx, (void).   Should partner, with J9xx, A, Jx, AQJ10xx, take the sac in 7C."

 

Hard to take the sac with 2 bullets, even though your pd  strongly suspects the AC won't stand up. Maybe 4C is not such a great bid after all. 3C would possibly only get 3H or maybe a responsive X. Doubler has such a powerhouse though that they would still get to 6. Nice to have agreements here about the meaning of pass and X in relation to the defensive tricks you have.

 

I don't think the sac with two aces is really all that hard to find opposite a jump to 4 CLUB vul.  The four club bidder vul will almost surely have 7 clubs. His seven to go along with your six clubs is all 13. But even if partner had only 6 clubs, that is still 12 clubs and one opponent must have a club void.  Now, the question of the sac has to do more with slow tricks... in the form of side suit queen in your partners hand (and don't lead a club)... In fact, a Diamond lead and diamond continuation will set 6HEARTS in the form of a diamond ruff.  And if you are not leading a CLUB or a HEART, you might lead a diamond.

[the hog]

"I don't think the sac with two aces is really all that hard to find opposite a jump to 4 CLUB vul.  The four club bidder vul will almost surely have 7 clubs. "

 

Oh yeah! rofl

[inquiry]

"I don't think the sac with two aces is really all that hard to find opposite a jump to 4 CLUB vul.  The four club bidder vul will almost surely have 7 clubs. "

 

Oh yeah! rofl

 

Interesting you left off the following sentence in case partner lacks seven CLUBS (But even if partner had only 6 clubs, that is still 12 clubs and one opponent must have a club void.).  Now if my partners would just start paying a little attention to LOTT.... I wouldn't end up in some really stupid contract..  :P

[the hog]

Even if you never get a C trick, you have far too much in defence to even contemplate a sac. The J of S and J of D are probably worthless in offence, but how can you determine their value in defence? You can't, and thus it's masterminding to even contemplate a sac at the 7 level.

[inquiry]

Even if you never get a C trick, you have far too much in defence to even contemplate a sac. The J of S and J of D are probably worthless in offence, but how can you determine their value in defence? You can't, and thus it's masterminding to even contemplate a sac at the 7 level.

 

Gosh... I am not tryin to get in a deep theoretical discussion on rather a sacrafice would be found or even should be found. In fact, I suggested specifically that "Now, the question of the sac has to do more with slow tricks (than the two bullets)... in the form of side suit queen in your partners hand (and don't lead a club)... ".

 

What I was specifically challenged was your statment that: "Hard to take the sac with 2 bullets, even though your pd  strongly suspects the AC won't stand up. "

 

My point, specifically was that you shouldn't "SUSPECT" the club ace will not stand up, after a jump to 4CLUBS by your parnter you KNOW it wil not stand up. So discussion of two "bullets" was, well, not really on point. In fact if you choose not to sac, you will surely NOT LEAD a CLub, but start either a SPADE or DIAMOND (Diamond beats 6 HEARTS).

 

But I wonder in this hand....

J9xx, A, Jx, AQJ10xx,

 

knowing that you are not getting a club trick do you really have "FAR TOO" much to "contemplate" a sac?  I guess you mean those power packed two JACKS.  Against certain sound bidders I who reached a vul 6 HEARTS after my partner jumps to 4C I would bid 7 CLUBS in a flash with this hand. Against others, know wild bidders, I would pass. But even in this case, unlike you, I would certainly at least consider the sacafice.

 

First, at least I know I am not pusshing them into a making Grand (I have ace of trumps).  But unlike you, I expect my regular partners to have their bids when vul, so I am sure we have a 13 card fit in clubs. So we have 10 pts in clubs, and 6 out side. Listen to the bidding. Can they have less than all the rest of the high card points? If they are sound bidders, the answer is no. Especially given the vul. So neither of my JACKS are likely to be winners.

 

BTW, indeed I have the X agreement by us by the opening leader to in preempting situation to show specifically one trick. However, it wouldn't apply on this auction, after we open.

[the hog]

"But I wonder in this hand....  

J9xx, A, Jx, AQJ10xx,

 

knowing that you are not getting a club trick do you really have "FAR TOO" much to "contemplate" a sac?  I mean against certain sound bidders I who reached a vul 6 HEARTS after my partner jumps to 4C I would bid 7 CLUBS in a flash with this hand. Against others I would pass. But I would certainly at least consider the sacafice. At least I know I am not pusshing them into a making Grand. "

 

I think so. Even against sound bidders you have pre empted the auction, (well your pd has), to such an extent that they will find it difficult to describe their holdings. I also would definitely not lead a S and maybe not a D - too likely to blow a trick even though on the actual deal the D lead does beat it.

 

More to the point I think, as I mentioned, that this discussion shows that the 4C bid, my initial choice also, is not the best choice. It has swung me round to thinking maybe 3C is wiser, though I have the values for 4.

 

Incidentally, one last point - if you are playing with your reg pd you can guarantee that you won't get a C trick. Can you underwrite that with Lloyd's of London when playing with a pick up partner? There are some fairly insane bidders out there and I would not put it past some to do this on Kxxxx.

[inquiry]

Incidentally, one last point - if you are playing with your reg pd you can guarantee that you won't get a C trick. Can you underwrite that with Lloyd's of London when playing with a pick up partner? There are some fairly insane bidders out there and I would not put it past some to do this on Kxxxx.

 

Well, this hand was opposite me or you in the problem, where we both bid 4 CLUBS somewhat relucantly. So the insane partner on this specific example was you and me.  :P

 

And if I am playing with a random partner, and he bids 4CLUBS with only five to the KING when vul, I will be looking for a new random partner in a few hands (not immediately after this one). That is in the very rare case where my partner turns out to be so totally clueless, and who has not specifically asked me for help improving their game, I never leave immediately at the end of some hand with some horrible bid/play by partner. I wait a hand or two until (hopefully) we can get a good result. I then make a general exuse (dinner, work, wife, pre-arranged game), thank everyone (including partner) and leave. Works for me. The one time I screwed up, is when I was sending a private message to an opponent explaining this policy and that I would be leaving the table as soon as (and if we ever did) get a good result our way. Sadly, that comment went public to the table. Imagine my embarrashment, because this came off as a public ridicule of my partner, exactly what I was trying to avoid.  :-X I immediately reported myself to Booze who was loggon at the time, and tried to apologize to my partner. Needless to say, my apology wasn't all that well received: after all, no one likes to be ridiculed, regardless of their skill level.

[luis]

>1) Neither vul, IMPs: KJ10, 10x, 9xxx, Axxx

>RHO opens 1S, pass, pass, partner doubles, RHO bids 2S and you?

 

I'm very tempted to bid a "natural" 2NT but I'm afraid if can be taken as "pick a minor". Since 3NT is too crazy even for me I'd pass. If he doubles again I'll bid 3NT very very happy. I'm just slightly afraid pd might pass 2s with a balanced 16/17 and we can lose a 3NT game but what else can I do?

 

 

>2) Both vul, IMPs: xx, xxx, x, K9xxxxx

>Partner opens 1C, RHO doubles, and you?

 

5 clubs, before they have the chance to know whats happening. Now if LHO has values he has to take a decision at the 5 level. I know the bid is not what others would do but I've bid exactly 5c with exactly the same holding in exactly the same sequence at a South American juniors championship and after 5s double by my pd we got a bunch of IMPs :-)