Is there a name for it ?

[samsing]

1 ♥ opening bid

2 ♥ reply from partner

opponents interfering with 3♣

Opener wants to ask partner if he's good or bad 6-9 with a 3♦/♥

Is there a name for that bid ?

 

(is it called a cuebid, an invitational bid or an interest bid or what)

 

Jorgen

[mgtusi]

Hello Jorgen,

 

 

That sort of bid is usually called try bid ; but the 3♣ overcall offers you the extra possibility of a double, which is no doubt a try bid in clubs.

 

 

 

 

Michel :unsure:

[helene_t]

As I understand the question it was not a trial bid related to diamonds, but a general trial. I would call it "game try".

 

A double of 3♣ would be penalty oriented, I think.

[samsing]

Hi Michel

 

Thanks for the answer. I suppose I didn't get the question right, though.

 

I don't mean when the opener asks for some sort of support in the new suit, but if he wants to know if the responder has 6-7 pts or 8-9 pts (with spade support of course).

 

Normally a 3 ♥ reply from opener, with no interference from oppenent, would be invitational, but with an interfering bid from the opponent, responder can't be sure if opener wants to invite or just contest for the auction.

 

I hope I got it right this time :unsure:

 

Thanks again

 

Jorgen

 

PS: or is there a better way to place an invitational bid ?

[samsing]

Not fast enough on the keyboard I see

 

I think Helene answered the question while I was posting my reply :unsure:

 

Thanks !

[luis]

I disagree with Helen, I don't play penalty doubles in competition. I think you can use the double as a trial bid.

[mgtusi]

Hello Jurgen

 

Sorry, at first, I misunderstood your question.

 

I use to play :

 

3 ♥ purely competive with or without the 3 ♣ bid : partner must pass

3 ♦ as a local trial bid

DOUBLE as a general trial bid

 

 

 

Michel

 

 

I have to find a nice citation as you all !

[pigpenz]

SOME PEOPLE PLAY THEM AS ACTION DOUBLES.

[Double !]

As I understand the question, you are asking how to make a game try as opposed to simply competing should the opponents compete by overcalling at the 3-level.

 

There is no one right answer. Most people now play that a 3H bid by you over the opp's 3C bid is strictly competitive, to play, and NOT an invitation for partner to bid 4H even with 8 or 9 pts, or whatever would be a maximum hand for P raise to 2H. If this is your agreement, then you have only two bids available that might be used for a game try. The method that I am more familiar with is to play a double of 3 clubs as a general game try but with some values (not a singleton) in clubs making it possible for partner to convert the double to penalties with a relatively balanced hand that does not wish to bid 4H. A bid of 3 diamonds would be a general game try, saying nothing about diamonds, but simply being the only other game try I have available, probably with most values outside of clubs, possibly distributional.

 

This approach falls roughly under the category of a convention called "Maximal Overcall Doubles" or "Maximal Doubles". It is more often associated with situations when the opps have bid the suit just under yours (i.e.: bidding 3 diamond if you were bidding hearts) and, therefore, left you with no other possible bid other than double to use as a game try. There are many web sites, such as www.bridgeguys.com/conventions, and books that describe this convention further. Hope this was the type of information that you were seeking.

[1eyedjack]

Once you have already expressed a trump fit, particularly in a major suit, the benefits of an artificial double are diminished. In particular, its use as a mechanism to identify a trump suit is largely redundant.

 

It is nice to have a variety of game try mechanisms available. Including double in that armoury increases that variety. But there comes a point where the marginal additional benefit of that increased precision is more than compensated for by ( a ) the loss of a penalty double and ( b ) the additional memory load given that the number of available game tries is a variable dependent on the precise amount of bidding space consumed by the opponent's bid.

 

For this reason I tend to play with regular P that if the only available game try is double then double is a game try (bidding support always being competitive). And in all other circumstances (that is, after we have found a fit), double is penalty orientated. Other intermediate bids up to 3 of our suit remain available as game tries.

 

The Law (of TNT) may suggest that doubling is not likely to be productive. But that is an a priori assessment and in my experience tends to be abused by opponents, increasing the need for the mechanism to punish them.

[luke warm]

i read luis' post with interest... i prefer to play cooperative doubles here, with pass showing "i had my bid but that's about it" and double saying "i have extras in the way of defense"... 3H would say "i have some distributional reason to bid and my defense could be better"

[coyot]

With neighbourghing suits of us and overcallers there is a simple solution:

If there is no room between their bid and our suit on 3rd level, double is a game try

(called Maximum Overcall Double I think) and our suit is partscore fight.

 

If both remaining suits are available, double is business, side suits are game try and main suit is partscore fight

 

If only one suit remains, you must make an agreement - and I would opt for the side suit to be a generic game try. The double for business may be necessary to protect you in LOTT cases.

 

(If you're known to be able to double opps for penalties often, they will intervene with your bidding less :))