helene_t Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Another poll about basic Precision, not as you play it with your regular p but as you would play it with a pick-up p. When Precision was invented, everyone played strong jump shifts (allthough most Precision authors played non-forcing jump shifts after a 1♣ opening). Nowadays all kinds of natural and artificial jumps shifts are fasionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Shouldn't this wait until the result of the "how forcing is a 2/1" poll is decided? My vote would be as follows - If 2/1 is GF: 3♣ = natural, pre-emptiveIf 2/1 is GF except rebid: 3♣ = fit jump with 3-card supportIf 2/1 is SAYC-style: 3♣ = some sort of 4-card raiseIf 2/1 does not promise a rebid: 3♣ = natural, strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 You're right, David. If you think this depends on the result on the "How forcing"-poll, it's a good idea to wait with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Shouldn't this wait until the result of the "how forcing is a 2/1" poll is decided? My vote would be as follows - If 2/1 is GF: 3♣ = natural, pre-emptiveIf 2/1 is GF except rebid: 3♣ = fit jump with 3-card supportIf 2/1 is SAYC-style: 3♣ = some sort of 4-card raiseIf 2/1 does not promise a rebid: 3♣ = natural, strong because this is a "BASIC PRECISION" thread Maybe david didn't realise where BASIC Precision systems differ from "sayc" or "2/1" or even "Acol" ( and other systems I don't list here because I don't know what they are called) as in Precision the 1♦♥♠ openers are LIMITED to 15 pionts In ANY version of Precision I have EVER played in 35 (yes thirty five years of playing different Precision systems I have NEVER played 2/1 as game force cos system does NOT need it :D :) ;) Even over a Precision 1♣ a JS to 2 level is NOT a game force !! :P ( at BEST shows a positive club or diamond suit ( 2♣ or 2♦ response) and 2♥/♠ shows 4-7 and a SIX card ♥/♠ suit -- so is NOT game force :P :blink: :) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 (edited) because this is a "BASIC PRECISION" thread Maybe david didn't realise where BASIC Precision systems differ from "sayc" or "2/1" or even "Acol" ( and other systems I don't list here because I don't know what they are called) as in Precision the 1♦♥♠ openers are LIMITED to 15 pionts In ANY version of Precision I have EVER played in 35 (yes thirty five years of playing different Precision systems I have NEVER played 2/1 as game force cos system does NOT need it ;) :D :rolleyes: Hmm. Despite what you say, all four of the options I described above have had some support in the poll "(non)forcing after a 2/1". I did not intend the statement "if 2/1 is GF then 3♣ should be natural and pre-emptive" to imply that I think 2/1GF is sensible in Precision. :) But since people are voting for it, we'd better consider the possibility of it being adopted. Edited July 17, 2005 by david_c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 CS - I think you missed the top of the poll. We are voting for the meaning of 1♠-(P)-3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 CS - I think you missed the top of the poll. We are voting for the meaning of 1♠-(P)-3♣.Sorry Micky - you are quite right. I need to realize where the first point is to be blind. I delete my post now as it is obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 i would play the J-S as strong, GF+, natural with new P because that is how many players initially learned it (Wei, Goren, Reese, Wei-Anderson). Is this the best way (wei)? Not sure, probably not. But it is least likely to create misunderstandings. What I find interesting is how few people play/ recall that Precision initially (if not still does) used a 2NT response to 1D& 1M as showing 16+, not Jacoby or various off-shoots where 2NT shows limit raise or better. It also played 1M - 3NT as forcing raise in M, seemingly adapted from some earlier systems like K-S. If you really want to have fun, take a poll r.e. what an opening 3C bid shows. (hint-hint: It ain't your normal pre-empt per se.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 i think it should be some strength showing bid with 4 card support, but i also think there should be some way to show mini splinters below game level... if you use 1M : 3M as a limit raise (4 cards), then the j/s can be same hand with splinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Fitbid or minisplinter is the most effective in my opinion (then GF hand with 4+ trump support would go via a "Sanian"-like 2NT). I doubt, however, that this could be set and expected as "Standard" Precision structure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Keep it simple. Use strong jump shifts. Opposite a limited opening, they work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Keep it simple. Use strong jump shifts. Opposite a limited opening, they work well. I like strong JS in a major, but for strong natural JS in a minor the frequency/gain does not seem to be a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Hum... you want something simple or complicated? SJS is simple... Besides, I don't think what you say is correct B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Keep it simple. Use strong jump shifts. Opposite a limited opening, they work well. Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Fit jumps please, and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 No strong jumpshifts please! What century are we in anyway? Fit jumps is a good idea for example, or minisplinters which is basically the reverse. You don't need SJS in a limited opening system (well not in any system but especially not in a limited opening system) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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