Basic Precision: Freebids/dbls after our 1c

[jtfanclub]

I think it is smarter to reverse pass/dbl and have pass show 5-7 or penalty double or some game forcing hands and have pass near force dbl from the 1♣ bidder. Then direct dbl can be 0-4 and direct suits can be game forcing (of the type not shown by p -> dbl -> suit).

The big advantage of the standard way is....

 

1♣ 1♥ -P- 2♥

-P- -P- -X-

 

X is clearly penalty, since with 0-4 without a penalty you'd just pass.

 

1♣ 1♥ -X- 2♥

-P- -P- -X-

 

X is clearly takeout, since with a penalty oriented hand you'd have passed the first time.

 

There are hands where with your system you'd wish that you had a penalty X, and hands where you'd wish you had a takeout X.

 

As for passing out when partner has a penalty, yes, it's possible. But at the one level, 1♣ 1♥ P P, opener should always rebid anyways, even if partner might have 0-4.

 

As for using non-jumps of suits to show non-GF hands, well, I don't need it at my level, and we'll see if I ever need it at any level.

 

And as for Helene's suggestions, well, I don't pay much attention to what suits the opponents claim to have. For one thing, they lie about their system. I haven't gotten an adjustment for it yet, it seems to just be an accepted practice against Precision. So the only bid where it makes a difference is no-trump: a minimum NT bid shows stoppers in the 'shown' suits, X includes balanced strong hands without stoppers in the shown suits.

[Hilver]

The other thing I should mention is the really annoying preemption to straighten out is how you bid after 1♣-P-1♦-2y.  When you know nothing about the shape of any of your hands other than 1 is strong (and acting first) and the other is weak and in the balancing seat then you need to have some understandings of what bids mean in this situation.

In my version of Precision - Revison Club Modified - that's not a major problem.

The 1♣-opener has either a strong balanced hand - 21+ HCP - or an unbalanced hand.

I know some hate it, but the opening bid of 1NT is 16-18 HCP and the opening bid of 2NT is 19-20 HCP.

 

So with a minimum hand opener will pass after 1♣-(pass)-1♦-(2Y) with a 16-18 unbalanced hand and bid something else with a strong balanced hand or an 19+ unbalanced hand.

1♦ in Revision can be weak, strong or intermediate. It denies several weak hands with 0-7 HCP and 5+cards in a suit.

[jtfanclub]

The other thing I should mention is the really annoying preemption to straighten out is how you bid after 1♣-P-1♦-2y. When you know nothing about the shape of any of your hands other than 1 is strong (and acting first) and the other is weak and in the balancing seat then you need to have some understandings of what bids mean in this situation.

I won't say I like Hilver's sytem, but I think his response structure is pretty standard:

 

Pass= 16-18 Balanced*

X= 19+ Balanced*

New suit= unbalanced and not forcing

Jump in new suit= unbalanced and forcing

minimum NT= Double stop in opponent's suit but no length, balanced.

3NT= 9 tricks, to play, frequently with a long minor.

 

*very, very heavily adjusted. There's lots of 18 counts I double with if the bid on my right increases the value of my hand. There are 19 counts with 3 small in their suit I'll pass with.

 

Opener should never bid a suit with a balanced hand, until responder has had a chance to show a suit.

[PrecisionL]

Another poll about Basic Precision, not as you play it with your regular p but as you would play it with a pick-up p.

 

MPs or IMPs?

 

At Match Point Pairs:

 

X = G.F. and bids = 5-7 and 5-card suit or better where partials are just as important as games and slams.

 

 

At IMPs, reverse the above where games and slams are more important.

 

Larry

[PrecisionL]

Forexample: ColoursFirst DESIGN: [LPL: 1♠ overcall is an ideal example!] from Roy Hughes Book

 

1♣ (1♠): Pass Weak or length in ♠(Trap pass)

X

Values with or without a stopper = balanced

 

1NT Transfer to ♣ 5

⁺

hcp

Opener accepts if min&

xx

 

2♣ Transfer to

♦

5

⁺

hcp

Opener accepts if min &

xx2

♦

Transfer to

♥

5

⁺

hcp

Opener accepts if min&

xx

 

2

♥

1

=4=4=4

 

2♠

Minors

 

2NT

♣ +

♥

 

3♣

♦

+

♥

 

3

♦

GF ♣

 

3

♥

GF ♣ + 0-1♠

1-Usplinter

 

3♠

AKQxxx+ any suit

 

3NT

Minimum GF with all strength in opp suit

 

"These are just ideas, which must look rather arbitrary. What is needed is to take the entire partnership methods, evaluate where transfer technology is appropriate and then apply it in a consistent way."

 

SYSTEMS on over X and 1♦ Interference.

[foobar]

Forexample: ColoursFirst DESIGN: [LPL: 1♠ overcall is an ideal example!] from Roy Hughes Book

 

1♣ (1♠): Pass Weak or length in ♠(Trap pass)

X

Values with or without a stopper = balanced

 

1NT Transfer to ♣ 5

⁺

hcp

Opener accepts if min&

xx

 

2♣ Transfer to

♦

5

⁺

hcp

Opener accepts if min &

xx2

♦

Transfer to

♥

5

⁺

hcp

Opener accepts if min&

xx

 

2

♥

1

=4=4=4

 

2♠

Minors

 

2NT

♣ +

♥

 

3♣

♦

+

♥

 

3

♦

GF ♣

 

3

♥

GF ♣ + 0-1♠

1-Usplinter

 

3♠

AKQxxx+ any suit

 

3NT

Minimum GF with all strength in opp suit

 

"These are just ideas, which must look rather arbitrary. What is needed is to take the entire partnership methods, evaluate where transfer technology is appropriate and then apply it in a consistent way."

 

SYSTEMS on over X and 1♦ Interference.

Seems like there's no way to establish a cheap GF with a balanced hand and stopper in their suit, short of bidding 3N? Perhaps, it's better to give up on the 1N transfer to clubs?

[pilun]

Freebids (including 1NT) nonforcing at level 1/2, forcing at level 3.

 

DBL = either 5-7, for takeout (major oriented) OR generic GF, usually NOT single suited (would jump) NOR 2-suiter (would bid "Michaels" cue OR "Unusual 2NT")

 

That's more or less what we do, though we use transfers in some auctions.

 

After 1♣ - (2♦)

 

double takeout, 2NT natural non-forcing (VERY few would play this 2NT as non-forcing)

2M non-forcing, 3x GF, usually 6+. For 2♥, responder might have

 

♠xxx ♥KQxxx ♦xx ♣xxx

 

I sort of picture opener with 16-18 balanced. After 1NT (16-18) - (2♦ natural) - 2♥ seems mainstream.