What action?

[Blofeld]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sxhkqdakqjxxcaqt9]133|100|Scoring: IMP

RHO opens 1♥ playing 5cM and a strong NT. What's your plan?[/hv]

Just had this come up ... am interested to hear what the general approach is.

[the hog]

Uh? X to start of with sounds like a good idea.

[mike777]

x.

 

Partner is an unpassed hand.

[Winstonm]

Think the concensus will be double to start - the real question is what to do after partner's 1S bid. I would bid 2H and follow this with 3D, which in my mind has to force as I didn't bid either 2D or 3D after the double. If partner can do no more than retreat to 3S after this, then I have a problem for sure.

 

Winston

[mike777]

Think the concensus will be double to start - the real question is what to do after partner's 1S bid.  I would bid 2H and follow this with 3D, which in my mind has to force as I didn't bid either 2D or 3D after the double.  If partner can do no more than retreat to 3S after this, then I have a problem for sure.

 

Winston

Agree double and then cue bid and then 3d shows a huge hand, this hand, but not forcing, partner can pass.

[Winstonm]

Think the concensus will be double to start - the real question is what to do after partner's 1S bid.  I would bid 2H and follow this with 3D, which in my mind has to force as I didn't bid either 2D or 3D after the double.  If partner can do no more than retreat to 3S after this, then I have a problem for sure.

 

Winston

Agree double and then cue bid and then 3d shows a huge hand, this hand, but not forcing, partner can pass.

Not a game force - a one round force - we can stop in 4D.

[han]

Reminds me of the following hand that came up recently at a club in Holland: A10 AQ AQ10xx AKQ10, white vs red, partner passes, RHO bids 1D. There was only one player who found the winning call: pass.

 

Not suggesting that pass is best here though! 3NT crossed my mind, but rejected this in favor of the double. As much as I hate to double with a stiff in the other major, it seems very likely that we will be able to catch up.

[scoob]

well, just to be different i'll bid 2NT

 

if p bids 3♣ i'll bid 3NT

if p bids 3♦ i'll bid 4NT

[bearmum]

X WTP?? :angry: :P :D

[helene_t]

I'm with Scoob. 3NT was my first impulse but then I realized that I won't be happy if LHO bid 4♠ and partner doubles. But 3NT is certainly an option of RHO had opened in 3rd seat.

 

Dbl is fine too, just not my style.

[Blofeld]

Winston has diagnosed things properly: if you start with a double, partner bids 1♠ passed back to you. What do you do now?

[hotShot]

dbl for a start, we will see what partner has to say. Bidding your own suit then, should be very strong.

[coyot]

dbl for a start, we will see what partner has to say. Bidding your own suit then, should be very strong.

It pays to have a good agreement with p about these auctions. We play a new suit after a double as a good hand (16-17+) with own suit, but it is invitational... So basically with every 20+ hand where there are good chances for game even against 2-4 HCP, you have to cuebid...

[han]

I'm with Scoob. 3NT was my first impulse but then I realized that I won't be happy if LHO bid 4♠ and partner doubles. But 3NT is certainly an option of RHO had opened in 3rd seat.

 

Dbl is fine too, just not my style.

Helene, if that's the auction then you will be very glad if partner doubles 4S. 3NT shows tricks here, not a balanced hand. You have much more defense then you promised.

 

Biggest problem with 3NT imo is that you may miss a club or diamond slam.

[inquiry]

2NT followed by 3NT if partner, as expected, responds at the three level in a minor. Great hand, minors, heart stopper.

[luis]

I bid 6♦ the scientific approach and the "wild gamble" usually have similar rate of success with this kind of hands. So I prefer to have the surprise factor on my side.

I'm prepared to say "sorry pd" or maybe to attend a inquisition comitee if 6 makes :-) Lol.

[Finch]

dbl for a start, we will see what partner has to say. Bidding your own suit then, should be very strong.

It pays to have a good agreement with p about these auctions. We play a new suit after a double as a good hand (16-17+) with own suit, but it is invitational... So basically with every 20+ hand where there are good chances for game even against 2-4 HCP, you have to cuebid...

It's a bit clumsy if you have to double, then cuebid with a very strong hand, so you get a very high level before you have a chance to show your suit.

 

Even if you play equal level conversion,

 

1H - x- P - 1S

P - 2D

 

shows a good hand, so double then jump should show a seriously good hand (around Acol 2 strength) - something like this hand which can't quite force game but want to be there opposite virtually anything except a Yarborough.

 

1H - x - P - 2C

P ?

 

If you play equal level conversion 2D doesn't show any extra, so you have to jump to show a good hand. In this auction you might have to cuebid to get your strength (but on the hand in question if partner bids 2C you won't be sorry).

 

If LHO bids, so that partner has volunteered a call, e.g.

1H x 2H 2S

P 3D

 

is now forcing. You have a good hand, partner has enough to enter the auction.

[Blofeld]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=skj83h8532d42c853&w=sat764h97d976c642&e=sq52hajt64dt8ckj7&s=s9hkqdakqj53caqt9]399|300|Scoring: IMP

The full hand (rotated for ease)[/hv]

At the table I thought for quite a while and then bid 3NT, which though a punt was a good result as everyone else who had had the 1♥ opening was playing in some number of diamonds (or something silly). I rather like the idea of prefacing it with a 2NT bid. How do the doublers get to 3NT?

[Walddk]

How do the doublers get to 3NT?

The doublers don't get to 3NT, because it can't make on best defence (double dummy admittedly). The doublers place themselves in the East chair and defeat the contract after the lead of ♥9.

 

Maybe we could let this be another contest. How do you beat the contract? Hidden text would perhaps be a good idea. It's not easy, not even with all cards in view.

 

Roland

[helene_t]

If East ducks the heart lead, he will eventually be thrown in with a heart. If he wins with the ace and conitues hearts, West will eventually be thrown in. At the five-card position, declarer has a spade and four clubs, West spades and maybe also clubs, and dummy four spades and a club. Now declarer leads his spade ....

 

So the solution is:

 

 

East wins with the ace of hearts and contnues a spade to his partner's ace. West exits with a diamond (Oops silly me, West must play a heart now of course). East keeps two clubs and two hearts when declarer has four clubs.

 

 

This may actually happen after a 2NT overcall since declarer's hand is known.

 

After a 3NT overcall, I would be surprised if 3NT was defeated.

 

Oops sorry you're right Roland.

Edited July 16, 2005 by helene_t

[Walddk]

I would be surprised if 3NT was defeated.

Me too, and you wouldn't defeat it the way you defended.

 

Roland

[luke warm]

nah, east

ducks the opening heart lead then tosses a club and 3 spades on the run of the diamonds... west comes in with the spade ace and leads his last heart

[beatrix45]

:( It can be beat, but the key play only works if you practically know declarer's distribution at trick one. I can't imagine an auction that suggests that. Other lines of play will surely look like the percentage way to go. By the way, how do I do hidden text?

[luke warm]

i disagree that you have to know declarer's dist.. a look at dummy is enough to clue you in, i think.. on the hidden text, click the "hidden" button above, type, click it again

[Walddk]

i disagree that you have to know declarer's dist.. a look at dummy is enough to clue you in, i think

Your solution to the double dummy defence is not correct, Jimmy. Just goes to show how difficult it can be even with all 52 cards in view. Virtually impossible to find at the table.

 

Roland